2-handing overhead from the beach.... couple questions....

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Frenchie, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. Anyone do it with any proficiency?

    I have long been fascinated by double overhead with a medium/short 2 handed rod. The idea of using a shooting head and effortlessly bombing out the backing knot puts a smile on my face.

    With that being said, i have several questions. one, is it really that much better than what I can do with my fast action saltwater 690?

    I have dabbled with lighter SPEY rods, but found that really, i dont think its the spey action that I need. I have done a little research and I'm looking at building a slightly modified z-axis 5110-4 or a TCX5119-4

    I would primarily be using such a set up for beach bombing and the secondary purpose will be big meat flies to trout in rivers.

    I have heard that the Z 5110 is a rod that sits in its own category. I'm looking at something in the 5 wt range. I had a Deer creek 5110 and the thing was too much for what I need. I have heard the z axis is more of a true 5 wt, and will do overhead nicely with a 6wt outbound.

    any info/ tips would be great, I had a lot of helpful advice before i picked up my xi3, and well frankly, it was spot on, so I thought I would shoot this out here as well.


    thanks all,

    Jon
     
  2. Jon, I can offer some confirmation that the Z Axis 5110-4 will bomb out an airlfo 40+ with ease. I can cast mine further using a two handed overhead casting technique than a single hander, and with less effort. I know little. I know I like the 5110-4 in the manner in which you describe.
     
  3. well... if you want a two handed rod for overhead casting, a lot of rods can do just fine... BUT...
    if you are looking for rods in surf condition + big flies... there are some special rods design just for that...
    http://www.cndspeyusa.com/Pages/oceana.html

    basically, you need a pretty stiff rod to be safe to handle big flies for overhead casting... IMHO
    Mark
     
  4. Thanks guys,

    I'm going to mainly use this rod for beach/fraser river fishing, so by "big" i mean 3" sculpins, so anything heavier will totally be overkill.

    I'd love to hear if anyone else has imput.

    anyone cast their 5110 single handed?

    Mumbles, do you use a 6 wt or 7 wt 40+?

    thanks again,

    Jon
     
  5. A caster with more talent and feel would likely prefer a 6wt. I have used both and favor the 7wt. I am not a very good caster, but this setup has made it work for me.
     
  6. Standard recommendation is to "over line" by two notches. On factory advice I got a 10 wt Outbound for an 8 wt switch rod, and it is well matched. Individual tastes will vary though.
     
  7. I also over-line my 7wt switch beach rod by just one, an 8wt Rio Outbound- that thing is a rocket launcher!
     
  8. Great info, it looks like this is THE ROD i'm after for this application. Anyone use the TCX 5119-4? its silly, but I LOVE the color! lol.

    Jon
     
  9. I'm using my Orvis Access Switch rod this way on the beach. I use a switch line and can cast the entire line 2-handed overhead. Big flies are not a problem if I set my leader up for it. The only thing I don't like is it takes a few false casts to get the head out past the guides but that is a small thing to get used to.
     
  10. I use a Z-axis 5110 for overhead casting and I can easily cast it single handed. I believe the line I use is 380 grains but can't remember off hand.
     
  11. I picked up a Beulah 10' #5 switch this summer for fishing pinks from the beach. It casts an SGS 285 Scandit with 8' intermediate or sinking Polyleader + tippet, or a 7wt. multi-tip line, very nicely.
    The 10' length is easy to cast single hand with a haul and get great distance, but you can get the same by casting overhead with two hands, and that's a lot easier on my shoulder.
    You can also do 'touch & go' spey casts as well as Scandinavian style underhand casts with ease.
    Beulah makes a 6wt. that I think is 10.5' that might do a better job with a bigger fly. I'm fishing fairly small flies for pinks, coho and cutts.
     
  12. Are you really casting a 7wt line on that poor 5wt zaxis? I've seen you cast and you're not near as bad as your self flagellating demeanor suggests. If you lined down and sped up on that fast rod with a quick stop wouldn't you get some more distance man?
     
  13. I had their classic 6/7 switch and while it's a great rod on small rivers I suggest something with a faster action for the beach. The Echo 4wt switch might be a good choice along with the two you mention. I'd love to get my hands on a 5119 TCX to see if it fits the bill for beach fishing. I heard a rumor that Sage may be coming out with a 4 wt switch in their new One line of rods. I do hope that's accurate.
     
  14. My Beulah is the newer 'Platinum' which is faster than the classic.
    The rod is rated as a double hand 5wt. - the grain equivalent in a single hand line is a 7wt.
     
  15. OK, that's a small fly. you should be able to cast it with any rod with good techniques.
    good luck!
     
  16. I see several people are already going down this route. My next question would be: it says "5wt" on it, but does it fight fish like a 5 weight? I know that the grain window is similar to a 7 weight SH rod, but I also understand the casting mechanics are different, but does it feel like a light rod?

    Man, if the TCX was an 11' this would be a no-brainer.

    Jon
     
  17. I've used the 6wt and 7wt lines and like them both. Pure distance I favor the 7wt. Used for two handed casting I favor the 7wt. Pure overhead the 6wt is likely better, but I suck, so the extra grain weight works. What the hell do you care? You don't even travel with your wading boots.
     
  18. I cast a 6 wt. Outbound on my 5 wt. Z-Axis. I also have AFS and Scandi lines for it. I usually use the Outbound on the beach but I have also used a 7 wt. 40+ and Outbound. I like the 6 wt. better.
     
  19. Frenchie
    First and foremost casting a two hand fly rod over head is not hard just a little different.
    The Sage Z-Axis 5 weight of the Sage TCX- 5 weight rod are both excellent choices for working overhead. I have both rods on the TryRack and use them on the Day On The River Program.

    The big aspect of overheading a two handed fly rod IMHO is the line.

    Here is the problem and that is hang time ( the amount of time that the line has to hang in the air after the pause in the back cast). For this one reason I opt for lines ( shooting heads mainly (by definition a shooting head is any fly line which by designed is made to draw shooting line out the guides during the shooting phase of the cast)).

    So my beach line for a two handed fly rod usually in quite a bit lighter than my normal Speyline.
    I prefer very stiff running lines for overhead work to assist in keep the head in flight and level in the back cast.

    A good line to start for either of the two rods is a Rio Floating Outbound Short in 6wt 235 grains head that is 30 ft long and I add a 15 ft poly leader.

    When single hand casting we have to allow for the haul timing,line being fed up in the back cast to increase the line tension during the back cast, and hang time. All three are need to load the rod deeper for medium to long casts.

    With a two handed fly rod we simple remove the double haul.
    The feed up line is held in the upper hand and lower hand is used to trap the rest of the running line.

    This simple method allows for cast to be made with ease to most fishing situations in the salt water.

    For two handed casting from the beach I opt for a Belgium casting Style (casting in a oval rather than a straight line)( the TCX loves this cast) and you do not need as long of back cast. I Went to this cast when beach fishing with some board members a Kayak point this year as a young woman about lost her bikini top with one of my long back casts.
    In the Belgium Cast feed up is one on the initial cast and there is no need for false cast which means time fishing and less time casting.


    My Beach outfit of choice is Zpey 11ft 7wt with a 6 wt Rio Floating Outbound Short , a Zpey Fusion Shooting Head Full Sinking 1/2 which weighs in 221 grains and intermediate poly leader and a Guiding full intermediate 45 foot shooing head weighing at 254 grains for really long casting. I like the Zpey Switch rods for a couple of reasons
    one I am a Graphite Junkie, second you can take the bottom handle off the rod to allow for clean feel when single hand casting and third they just feel right.

    If you have any question just e-mail me at speyschool@comcast.net
     
  20. Thank you very much for the lengthy reply Speybum.

    that was incredibly informative. I will throw both into the xmas hat and see what I turn up with.

    thanks everyone.

    Jon
     

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