My previous post is about why I post my first post. You did say that things that you say on your first post, hence my response is to that. It has nothing to do with your following post. As far as location revealing, I do not agree with your opinion.
Could I sign up for the class B and C class? I would love to meet more people out on the rivers. Hell, I would just like to sit and watch someone who CAN cast well do it so I can learn something!ptyd
Man, I thought this thread was going well until we hit page 2. I really do think I will make a move toward taking people out on the river from the site. I'm going to run this up the flagpole and see who salutes, maybe get a few other senior members to help out.
Gotta agree with livetofish, Coachduff, Richard, and Mike Etgen that discretion is the better way to go when thinking about revealing fishing locations.
Chongfk, your idealism is refreshing, but you are incredibly naive if you believe that sharing the location of a "secret" good fishing spot on the internet won't subject that spot to more visitations by fishers who hadn't known of that spot before its location was posted. Crowds are never a good thing, unless you are making money off them. Myself, I don't like crowds at my fishing spots. Ideally, I like to be fishing alone or with one or maybe even two buddies. If I (or we) don't see anyone else all day, so much the better. I DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH EVERYBODY! I guess that makes me selfish and greedy, but I don't care if anyone calls me those words, because I want to keep my nice places that I like to go to secret and free from the filthy sweating hordes. Dig?
Yesterday I worked hard to get to a spot I never talk about, and I had it all to myself. The fishing, for coastal cutthroat, was spotty, a fish here, a fish there, on #6 yellow/red reverse spider, later switching to a #6 black reverse spider. I finally ran into a pod of searuns occupying a nice pool and had some good fast action...six nice litle acrobats to hand, 11" to 13" chromers. Cutthroat Heaven...Shangri La...The Zone....I might share this spot with one or two individuals whom I can trust to keep it quiet, but I don't want to share it with the world. I spent alot of time and effort finding this place and learning about its secrets.
Places like these are referred to as "zipperlips," "secret spots," or "getaways," because they are places you go to to get away from other people and crowds. And there are usually at least a few other people who also enjoy these places and appreciate their uncrowded, pristine nature and who would also like to keep them that way, and who would be more than a little dismayed to see them advertised willy nilly on the internet....one has an obligation to NOT spill the beans and ruin a place for these other lucky ones who also already know about it.
Chongfk you will never know these places.
Someday I might find my own secret location here in the state, if I have the time to explore. When I do, I just don't mind sharing it. If it is a location that you have to work hard to get to, I truly don't think the location will be crowded. I might see you or a couple others on this board who have a sense of adventure to be there, which is ok. I am ok too even if new faces show up, they deserve a pat in the back if they work hard and spend the some time to get there. You keep your secret spot to you and your trusted friends, that's your preference. I want to let you know that when I find a heavenly fishing location, you and your friend are invited. I am more then happy to see you in the water with me.
There are no secret fishing spot on public land. All are open to the general public who buy a WA fishing license and fish according to the regulation. I don't think those who fish illegally will take the effort to fish a hard-to-reach location since they will have a much easier time fishing the major rivers of WA.
Jim Wallace you will know these places . . . of course, I have to find them first
Me being a generally solitary type, I felt a little squeamish about this at first, but then I saw an even more profound possibility:
How about we start a new service here, sort of an "eHarmony" for Washington flyfishermen? You know, match up the needy, lonely types like me with compatibles. The basic questionnaire could range from the practical to the esoteric:
Willing to travel?
Will pay for gas? (yes or no)
Have a clean, safe vehicle to share? (yes/no) If no, describe and explain.
Have all the basic gear (flyfishing, that is)?
Can tie own knots?
Bring own flies?
Packing or not (as in firearms)? If yes, please describe weapon.
Tolerant of (rain, heat, wet clothing, cold, screaming "Fish on!", etc.)
Tolerant of (smoking, farting, belching, body odor, swearing, drinking, etc)?
Willing to talk about (anything, nothing, flyfishing only, ethics, sports, religion, politics, women, men, children, dogs, trucks, gear, etc.)?
Able to disagree about closely-held values by (sulking, agreeing to disagree, insults, threats, bitch-slapping, hand-to-hand combat, accidental drowning, other)?
My idea of funny is (Carlos Mencia, Stephen Colbert, Bart Simpson, Hank Hill, Donald Rumsfeld, other?)
I can see the ads now. Me and my new fishing buddy, telling the world how we met our perfect flyfshing match on "WWF Flyharmony."
Sorry, Matt, for stealing your basic idea. I'm sure Chris will share the royalties with us evenly.
PS...all joking aside, I do think Matt's is the basis of a good idea. We've all seen posts from new members looking for someone to fish with, and I suspect some of the veterans have been pretty good about stepping up.
Alright guys, I know I am rubbing a lot of you here the wrong way. But I stand where I stand, that will never change. I want to say that I understand your arguments even though it is not one that I can agree with. Call me "incredibly naive", I don't mind. I will say this though; I will never reveal a location that is shown to me unless I have the permission to do so. This is basic respect. So for those who have shown me some of their fishing location, I thank you and please do not worry, I will never reveal it to any body unless I have your permission. However, if I find a fishing location on my own, I am sorry but I will share it with everyone. That’s just how I fly fish. I believe in sharing and bringing in new blood to the sport.
I know everybody here love world peace , May be sometime some writing might seem a bit rude and mean (including my self), but it's all for good cause. I apologize if I have aggravated you here. Please keep sharing techniques and other info on this board; it was this info that starts my WA fishing experience. You have no clue how much your genuine info and guidelines here means to some one who are new to WA fly fishing or fly fishing.
The last thing I want to say is "Let's go fish!!" Tight line everybody!!
We're all here because we love to fish. Help a brother out, it's not like there are really any "secrets". Might as well spill the details. Hell we can all go on google earth and see you standing there, in your oh so ivory tower secret spot.
Outside private access, all fishing locations should be shared in any kind of usefull manner.
I swear sometimes I read this board and wonder if the administrators aren't getting mail to remove certain posts because of some 'secret' divulged!
That being said you can be of camp #1, the aren't I special, I've paid my dues, I deserve it, really I know something, or camp #2, hey I was out at Brown's Point at dusk high tide rippin' cohos right and left.
Choose as you will, but please don't go on pontificating about either your specialness, or bashing those who care to share.
"Big Dog", as you ended your thread on 8-18-2006 at 2.45 PM. And I quote,
"There are no secrets in fishing, just wisdom that some refuse to pass along for whatever reason."
You can give your spots or not give your spots, just treat others like you want to be treated.
PS We need to talk about the upper Columbia.:beer1:
I say we just practice good judgement. Is that too much to ask?
Golden Gardens is not a secret spot. Neither is the MF of the Snoqualmie. A small run of steelhead on an unnamed stream might be. There is a fine, if not fuzzy line here. People are trying to draw it with a ruler and a fine tip pen and that is the kind of crappy logic that causes feuds, genocide and ethnic cleansing in some parts of the world.
Jeez, we've made it all the way to genocide and ethnic cleansing. Wow!
Seriously, though, thanks all for thoughtful comments and lively debate. This issue will not go away, nor should it. As more and more folks learn the beauty of our sport we will be forced to deal more and more with crowding, overfishing and the impact of our actions on the resource.
**Warning for raincityrod and bigdog... pontification below!**
I guess I look at it this way... I generally don't hesitate to share location info with other flyfishers in one-on-one, face-to-face settings because there is a human quality to those interactions that is generally absent in anonymous forums like this. This is presumably the reason chongfk says he will not reveal locations others have shown him (though that statement seems to oddly contradict his general stance in favor of tell-all posting) - he apparently respects a face-to-face source enough to protect their hard-earned secrets, but a "secret" obtained from an anonymous internet benefactor is fair game for widespread promotion.
Let's face it... many, if not most, of the places I learned to fish were passed along to me by others who had been there first. This was generally accompanied by a pat on the shoulder or a handshake, an unstated "take care of that spot as you think I would". The difference in the forum setting is the anonymity, the number of readers and the unknown ethics/intentions of a majority of the participants. IMHO, grass roots growth from individual to individual is healthy for the sport, but the power of the internet (and the corporate, money-is-everything flyfishing mag industry) to fuel exponential growth is distasteful.
I guess that's why I keep moving farther and farther away from the human anthill that is Pugopolis - not because I'm antisocial, but because I crave a greater sense of community and connectedness with others that is increasingly absent in the mass market corporate world. Quality over quantity. Not coincidentally, just what I look for in a fishing destination.
PS - Have fun at Brown's, bigdog, I won't be seein' ya there. Not an ivory tower thing, but a peace thing. Peace out.
It’s basic respect between human. If I reveal a location that someone show me, who doesn't want the location to be reveal, I am betraying him and I have disrespect someone who are willing to share their experience with me. If I discover a location my self, I will definitely share with all. I am all for the "tell-all" type of report, but I won't disrespect those who have a different preference then I.
Hey Matt, what about the "taking newbie to fish" activity? Can I join? I seriously need help with my casting . I like Mike's Flyharmony idea, lol!