2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Mark Walker, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. I love how conservatives invoke the "liberal activist court" fear. If you haven't noticed the S.C. is composed of more conservatives than liberals. The most likley to retire justices are liberals. The latest appointments are likley to remain on the court for half a century. That doesn't even take into account the other federal judicial appointments. The court won't become more liberal anytime soon. If anything, it will become more conservative. So all you people who think that if you didn't have a hand gun you would be gunned down in the street at random--should be able to sleep easy.

    By the way, Mumbles is right.
  2. How often can you say that you see the above statement, here or anywhere? Derek Day, my new friend from the 542 East. Wonderful country. When will it be time to assault Mt Baker and Mt Shuksan?

  3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... un_control

    Gun control
    As a state legislator in Illinois, Obama supported banning the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic firearms, increasing state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms and requiring manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.[233]

    In 1996, during Obama's run for the Illinois State Senate, he was surveyed by a Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois about criminal justice and other issues. Obama's questionnaire showed that he supported a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns. Subsequently, Obama denied that his writing was on the document and said that he never favored a ban on the sale and possession of handguns.[234][235] In 1999, he urged prohibiting the operation of any gun store within five miles of a school or park, which according to gun-rights advocates would eliminate gun stores from most of the inhabited portion of the United States.[236] He sponsored a bill in 2000 limiting handgun purchases to one per month.

    As state senator, he voted against a 2004 measure that allowed self-defense as an affirmative defense for those charged with violating local laws making it otherwise unlawful for such persons to possess firearms.[237] He also voted against allowing persons who had obtained domestic violence protective orders to carry handguns for their protection.[236]

    From 1994 through 2002, Obama was a board member of the Joyce Foundation, which amongst other non-gun related activities provides funds for gun control organizations in the United States.[238][239]

    While in the US Senate, Obama has supported several gun control measures, including restricting the purchase of firearms at gun shows and the reauthorization of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban.[240] Obama voted against legislation protecting firearm manufacturers from certain liability suits, which gun-rights advocates say are designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.[241] Obama did vote in favor of the 2006 Vitter Amendment to prohibit the confiscation of lawful firearms during an emergency or major disaster, which passed 84-16.[242]

    During a February 15, 2008 press conference, Obama stated, "I think there is an individual right to bear arms, but it's subject to commonsense regulation."[243] Obama has also stated his opposition to allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms[244] and supports a national law outlawing the practice,[245][246] saying on Chicago Public Radio in 2004 "I continue to support a ban on concealed carry laws".[247]

    Obama initially voiced support of Washington DC's handgun ban. Following the Supreme Court decision that the ban was unconstitutional, he revised his position in support of the decision overturning the law, saying, "Today's decision reinforces that if we act responsibly, we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe."[248] He also said, in response to the ruling, "I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms... The Supreme Court has now endorsed that view." [249]

    After being elected as President, Obama has announced his support for reinstating the expired Assault Weapons Ban.
  4. Mumbles,

    I have friends who made an assault today.
  5. I think I am looking more at a side by side. Traditionalist ya know. Maybe we could get into some sort of argument about whether an over under or side by side is more traditional, ethical, sporting, etc. like the dry line verses tip argument or swing verses nymph. Also I think there is an argument to be made over the cover one should wear while hunting with a side by side. Perhaps with the correct argument we could stretch this thread out to 7 or 8 pages. Wanna give it a go?
  6. Since the 1940s, where my memory on guns begins I've heard rants about losing our right to own guns. It has never happened and is not going to happen under President Elect Obama. NRA scare tactics are becoming less and less successful every year.
    I certainly support the right to bear arms for hunting, home protection or target shooting. I say this as one who carried an MI and two 45s during my stint in Korea as a Marine and know something about killing.
    All of you that think you are going to lose your guns shoujld lighten up. Protect your home, yourself and your loved ones for sure, but don't make a penile enhancent game out of it.
    Les Johnson
  7. The day after the election there was a group
    of democrats going door to door asking if we
    owned any guns.

  8. Kerry, in a word NOPE, you like your side by side, that is good with me. Nothing says home security system better than a 12 guage. I guess for hunting I normally would opt for a pump anyway, but the over under just has an appeal since I first sqeezed of a round in one as a lad. My uncle always had the best collections.
  9. Thank you Les. Yours and Derek Day's are two of the few voices of reason in this pity party of right wing paranoids.

    Sure, change can be scary but it's no reason to lock and load.

  10. Thanks for the smiles and good read.
    "Gun control" is hitting what you shoot at.
  11. Let us not forget that Oback Obama taught constitutional law for eleven years at Chicago University a bastion of conservative law and one of our finest law schools.
    Les Johnson
  12. It was all in fun. I use a pump for home security; 6 shot, 18 1/4 inch barrell Mossburg loaded with #4 buck. I only want a double because I have never owned one before and likely a smaller gauge like a 28 for upland bird hunting. A little lighter to pack around than a 12 pump.

    I don't think we will need to do anything to keep this thread going as it is starting to turn political. I give this thread another couple hours of life before getting shut down.
  13. Thank you Kent, Les and Derek. I cannot cipher out just what these gun worshipers are afraid of. The only voices I hear about anyone "coming o take their guns" are the gun owners themselves.

    Like Les, I personally packed a terrifying mass of fire power through two Tet offenses for the Marines back in the 60's. I had an automatic rifle, a pistol, grenade launcher and a belt fed 30 cal within reach for 13 months. And despite getting into some dicey situations I should have avoided since, I've never felt the need for a people weapon again.

    What is it you're afraid of? I'll tell you what scares me, any clown with a credit card or a brick can get his hands on an assault weapon, with no filter on what he's going to do with it. About 20 years ago, some little cheesedick in Eugene spent the night getting stoned and watching and re-watching that puke Rambo movie. Come dawn, he broke into a gun store down town, and stole an AR-15 he'd been admiring, but couldn't afford. He tied a sock around his head, and went down to the U of O, where he murdered an Olympic class runner stretching out for his run, shot a wrestler and a coach, and made a name for himself, which fortunately, I've forgotten. I can still picture the runner and his little boy watching my soccer games, though I try not to.

    My point is that this sick fascination with the "mystique" of machismo from a 20 round magazine is too easy to indulge, and doesn't have much upside.

    If someone were to break into my home, AND threaten me or mine (not our stuff, stuff ain't worth killing for) I would very likely kill him with the 12 gauge, katana sword or K-bar I still keep handy, but I hate guns and the thought of how many geeks with goiters are out there stockpiling Glocks and AK-47's for???

    I hope I haven't offended anyone.
  14. So what is not understood?

    Why someone would want a semi automatic rifle, pistol or shotgun or the Constitution?

  15. Well Mumbles I have to take issue with your blanket statement here on a number of points.

    First, I was born in Wyoming and lived there until graduating from college in 1970. I found the veracity of Wyoming women continually suspect. Whenever I invited them out they consistently told me they had other plans. Now while that may have been true in some instances, I doubt it was factual in every case.

    Second, may I direct you to a story from my hometown paper The Cody Enterprise from July 11, 2007 about a gunman spraying a crowded Wal Mart parking lot with bullets.


    No one was hurt but contrary to your friend’s assertion the presence of a well-armed populace did not prevent the gunman’s actions or cut them short. He was eventually identified, tried and convicted. As I recall he was shooting at another guy he had been feuding with and had a history of anger management problems and poor aim.

    Finally I just did a quick Goggle search for violent crime statistics by state and found this site with a whole bunch of numbers:


    While I can hardly provide a careful analysis of all the figures available there and noting that the murder rate does not necessary equate with the misuse of firearms, here’s a quick summary of what I found interesting:

    The national murder rate for 2007 was 5.6 per 100,000 inhabitants
    Wyoming was 3.1 per 100,000
    In adjoining Montana 1.5 and in Utah 2.2

    Closer to home Washington 2.7

    In the well armed Republic of Texas 5.9
    and Michigan 6.7

    So, whatever the reason, it looks like we’re all a little safer than average in the rocky mountain states where there are a lot of good people who are gun owners. Even if the cute ones won’t go out with me.
    -- Larry
  16. I would venture a guess about those murder rates in various states. I think it probably has a lot to do with population density. In those states with really low rates, there are not the same kind of populations centers as in Texas and Michigan, with cities like Detroit, Houston, etc.

    Another thought--it seems that what people are scared of, and why they want to have guns, is because there are other people out there with guns. I think if you look at other countries, where they don't have this entrenched history of owning firearms and all that, you see a lot less gun crime. People don't have guns, don't want them, don't need them. A few people might have a rifle or shotgun for hunting, but that's about it.
    I think it's a really unique thing, our obsession with guns here in the U.S. In other countries where I've spent time, people absolutely don't understand it. I don't really either.

    I don't know. I'm not saying I necessarily think people shouldn't have guns. People want to hunt, that's fine. But I think there is too much obsession with these "gun rights" in our country, as well. And I think it's sad. I don't understand what people are so scared of. I think most folks who are obsessed with having a gun just use this whole "protection" idea as a way to justify having something that they really have no good use for.

    Oh well. Happy hunting.

  17. I have to choose between a pistol or the Constitution? I guess that's the part I don't understand.

    I have a great deal of faith in the Constitution, those who support it, and who realize it's strength lies in the whole document, not just picking one sentence out of a part you like.

    I asked a simple question, "what are you afraid of?" I worry about paranoids who think they need to carry a gun every where they go. Ask that kid's mom who shot himself in the head at the gun show last month. I bet she sleeps better knowing that there are thousands of "experts" with an Uzi like the one who was teaching her son out there keeping us all safe.

    Okay, that was a cheap shot. I just think that as long was we're paying billions a year for a military and law enforcement, I am comfortable leaving the heavy lifting to professionals. There are instances of random violence in America, but can't believe arming everyone can reduce the incidence. I know many decent people who feel differently, but I am not a threat to you or your weapons. I do hope you all can keep those things in your pants until genuinely in a life threatening situation. Knowing the difference can be tricky, even when not angry, drunk or jealous.
  18. I own guns because I like to shot guns. Its fun. We were out in the backyard shooting yesterday. Funny after we started the neighbors started shooting also. Sounded like a South LA street fight.

    One of the handguns I just purchased would be a lousy gun for protection. It has a heavy 6 inch barrel and isn't good for much but target shooting which is exactly what I bought it for. The other one does have a 3 inch barrel and could be used as a carry weapon but I bought it mostly because it is light and a small caliber that my wife can shoot. Being it is a small caliber gun probably makes it impratical to use as a self protection weapon.

    As I said in an earlier post for protection I have a 12 guage shotgun. The most firepower you can legally own and likely the easiest to use. Truly point and shoot.
  19. Larry, I only know the one woman from WY and I took what she told me as a long time resident as logical at face value. I agree that there are areas where the per capita violent crime rates are higher and I'm glad I don't live in any of those places any longer, I did live in a few of them in my younger days. Good luck with the cute gun toting ladies of WY, I'm sure that one of them will see fit to enjoy your company.

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