2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Mark Walker, Nov 16, 2008.

  1. LG Mix

    LG Mix New Member

    Mumbles -- My wonderful wife is from Chicago and plays violin. At least that's what she says is in the case.
    -- Larry
     
  2. Jeff Hale

    Jeff Hale B.I.G.F.F.

    I was at the range the other day sighting in my rifle for deer season, and I was amazed at some of the "ignorant" and dangerous behaviors exhibited by two guys there with more guns than ANYONE I've ever seen. These guys had it all; assault rifles, short Uzi-looking things, handguns, rifles, all sorts of shit I had never seen.
    Over the course of the next hour and a half, the range officer had to tell one of the guys TWICE to put down his firearm and step behind the redline while the 100-yard range was "cold". This ding-dong was loading his gun while there were guys out on the range hanging up targets. The second time he did it, he sat down to begin shooting at his target while a man he didn't see in his periphery was still out hanging up a target. It was an accident, however, this is not excusable given the fact that the range officer had not flipped the lights off and announced the range "hot", and that every other person was standing behind the line waitng patiently. The guy was asked to pack up and leave. He apologized to us all, but I didn't give a rip. His carelessness could have killed someone.

    I like my guns as much as anybody, but I think the NRA is full of shit about 50% of the time and they definitely like to use fear to push their agenda. I hate it when the media does it, and I hate it when the NRA does it, or anyone else for that matter. I don't need an assault rifle to protect my home. I really don't care whether or not my pistol is concealed. If I go somewhere I feel I need it, I will just wear in plain view.

    I have seen some seriously low folks on the "intellectual food chain" with enough firepower to kill a couple hundred people (like the guys at the range). I'm not saying that this is the case with most gun owners, but it's enough to talk about. I think people who are more prone to fear, feel the need for more weapons. I also believe that the less educated you are, the more easily you succumb to fear, paranoia, and propaganda. I know this has been the case with myself over the last 30 years with respect to my own maturation and increased education. Do you think more guns are owned by people with low levels of education (highschool graduates or less) or better educated individuals (4 year college degrees, Masters, or Ph.D?). I don't know the answer, but based purely on personal experience, most of the serious gun-toters I know are very blue-collar guys with little or no undergrad or Post-grad schooling. Not that this makes them necessarily "less intelligent", because we all know a formal education doesn't equate to intelligence. In fact, some of the guys I know that are really into guns are kinesthetic geniuses with their hands and tools. They're just not real cerebral, they watch a lot of news, and I hear them parrot what they just read or heard from their local newspaper or newschannel. I think some of them are easily influenced, thats all. I'm done rambling now. I'm going to go play with my muzzleloader. Jeff
     
  3. Itchy Dog

    Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

    I have an O/U, but I think a side by side looks way cooler when sawed-off.
    To say, 17.5 inches.
     
  4. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    Splatter patterns are running through my mind! Short, sweet and definately to the point.
     
  5. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    I'm more concerned about my 1st and 3rd-27th ammendment rights... At least someone cares about one of the ammendments....
     
  6. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    I want a SxS to hang on the fireplace mantel. I just think they look cooler than O/Us. I almost bought one on sale last year when Cabela's opened but didn't. Also way better as a home defense weapon than a handgun. Easy to aim with #4 shot.

    Sg
     
  7. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    #4?? Dude you want buckshot...
     
  8. gt

    gt Active Member

    yah know, the republics lost an election, BIG. the NRA lost their traction and voice along with the republics. so what else would you expect except for the NRA to start beating their worn out drum. kind of like tuning in the drug addict at this late date, total bullshit from both of'um.

    the best 'home defense' weapon is a simple to operate pump shotgun with an extended magazine. total capacity of 8 or so. loading with #7s pretty much guarantees you won't penetrate your walls and blow your neighbors house to bits. tactical shooting, which might describe 'home defense' is usually considered to occur at 7m or less. a full load of bird shot is not even going to get out of the shot cup at that range.
     
  9. hookedonthefly

    hookedonthefly Active Member

    The beauty of the 2nd amendment is that you don't need it until they try and take them away.

    Both Obama and Biden, more Biden since he's been around longer, do have history of anti-gun political behavior. Some good reading now and then to remind us where we came from, frankly in the not too distant past, is the Declaration of Independence.

    Someone said earlier that stealing stuff ain't worth shooting someone over. I'll disagree. I would have no remorse whatsoever for shooting someone for stealing $hit, especially the '07 Honda 9.9 that got ripped from me two nights ago.

    It could also be that I'm from Texas where people actually do get shot for stealing with the shooter having little fear of legal repercussion.

    I might also feel differently if our judicial system actually worked.

    I voted for Thomas Jefferson.

    Ed
     
  10. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Sorry for you loss. But while tough talk sure sounds good in an online forum, you've clearly never seen someone die as a direct result of you own actions.

    The reality is that no jury in this country would ever let you walk for killing someone you caught stealing your stuff. A 10 year or longer sentence, even pleaded down to aggravated homicide or manslaughter, would give you plenty of time to reconsider that decision.

    K
     
  11. hikepat

    hikepat Patrick

    Can any one point me to a web site or know the law showing what would happen in Washington if I blast a person with non lethal rubber shot or rock salt from a 12 gauge if I catch a person breaking into my car or boat or sneaking around in my yard?
    Not self defense, so I know they would take issue with lethal means but what is the law on non lethal means such as 12 gauge rubber shot of protecting your property?
    Kind of a bit of debate I had yesterday with someone with neither knowing the answer.
     
  12. tythetier

    tythetier Fish Slayer

    Not too woried 'bout it. Only semi auto anything i have is a 12 ga.. They can have it after they pry it from my cold stiff hands. Besides, hasnt every Democrat promised to melt our guns down??

    If it makes you feel better, blame me, I voted for him....
     
  13. steelydan

    steelydan Newb seeking wisdom

    I'm pretty sure it's illegal for crooks to posess and carry firearms already.
    I hope everyone on this site has or is in the process of getting a CCW.
    It's your responsibility as a law abiding citizen.
     
  14. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

    Yea I remember Obama making that job number one.
    Please....
     
  15. hookedonthefly

    hookedonthefly Active Member

    I'll stand by my words that I would not have one bit of remorse. That's just the way I feel; so, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I do however respect your thoughts and feelings.

    Search Joe Horn in Pasadena, TX...no charges filed after he shot two burglars fleeing with loot from his neighbor's home.

    The cousin of a good friend of mine had similar experience when he shot three burglars coming from the home where he was working as a contractor. No charges were filed.

    Now, in Washington, I understand you are probably right and I would have a lengthy time to reconsider my decision.

    Ed
     
  16. Matt Roelofs

    Matt Roelofs Member

    I can't believe I'm going to weigh in on this one here...and I know lots of the chat here (and many places on the internet) amounts to nothing more than a bunch of (with an apology to any female posters in this thread) dick swinging...but I really, deeply, completely, in my liberal heart, just don't get it.

    There are many anecdotes on both sides about how effective guns (which I know is a big, broad category) are as a crime deterrent. For every story about how there aren't any gun crimes in areas with high gun ownership, there is a counter-story where (nearly) everyone is armed and it's like the wild west. From what I understand, even the academic literature on the subject is mixed.

    What I do know is that in today's headlines are two stories that should give all of us: gun-loving, trigger-happy, self-proclaimed rednecks and bleeding-heart, gun stealing, pansy-ass liberals cause to reflect...

    In the first, an estranged husband confronts his ex-wife, kills her and then kills himself, thankfully leaving 3 children and two other adults in the home unharmed (at least physically). Would the wife have survived if she (I'm assuming she didn't) had a gun in the house? If she did and the husband was the only one to die, did he deserve it?

    In the second story, a father accidently kills his daughter while cleaning a gun. The media plays up the fact that he was drinking, which may or may not have contributed to the accident, but regardless, the little girl is dead. Would she have died if he didn't have a gun? It's a tragic accident to be sure, and maybe he's just irresponsible and it might have caught up with him/them eventually...

    So, is the answer more guns? fewer guns? more responsibility? more government? less government? I honestly don't know. But I do know that we've tried the approach where guns are widely available and it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe some restrictions on gun ownership would lead to a rash of incidents where gun-toting criminals rob and kill the unarmed...but I doubt it.

    In the end I just know it would be nice to read fewer stories like the ones above.

    Thanks to all (or most of all) for a reasonably calm, measured discussion. Cheers! :beer2:
     
  17. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    You might get away with it if you had a good lawyer........ a very good lawyer.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.050

    RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

    (2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.
     
  18. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    It is really possible to properly clean any modern firearm without realizing it is loaded ie opening up the chamber to keep your bore brush from jamming krap into your bolt, pin....... whatever. Defense cocksuc.....erm attorneys use the "loaded gun cleaning" story because it is very difficult to disprove.
     
  19. gt

    gt Active Member

    in the days of yor, we had a peeping tom at our student housing in ellensburg. virtually all of us had firearms loaded and at the ready. but one clear thinking student decided that we should invite the sheriff over for a discussion. good thing!

    we were informed, then but it still applies today, that unless you are in danger of bodily harm from the perp, there is zero defense. and he was pretty clear that if we were to pop someone, they damn well better be all the way inside the apt.

    but then, how many of you have actually killed another human being? you really sure that an outboard motor is grounds for death? just askin............
     
  20. Smooth

    Smooth Guest

    [QUOTE=Matt Roelofs;387058]I
    What I do know is that in today's headlines are two stories that should give all of us: gun-loving, trigger-happy, self-proclaimed rednecks and bleeding-heart, gun stealing, pansy-ass liberals cause to reflect...


    OK Matt,
    Yes, tragic stories. But why should I have "cause to reflect"? None of my behavior contributed to any of this.
    People die every day because they, or someone else, were stupid or careless.
    The drunk who shot his daughter could have just as easily killed her, and others, while driving drunk. No matter how you add it up, it was the father's fault...not the gun's.

    So...what is your take on automobile related deaths? There were also two articles about the careless use of automobiles resulting in death over the weekend. One head-on by Rosalia and one near Bigelow Gulch road.
    How about the nurse or doctor who messes up a drug injection at the hospital?

    Do we lay blame on the drug or the automobiles? no...we blame the driver and the person who injected the wrong drug.
    Do we try to reduce the number of autos on the road? Automobiles aren't protected by an Amendment to the Constitution.
    Do we ban all drugs because some careless nurse or doctor blows it? (Drugs aren't protected under an Amendment either)
    Why argue to ban or restrict guns when it is clear guns themselves do not cause the problem? That is just lousy logic.

    Honor and uphold the Constitution of the United States of America!

    Most people can't look beyond the statistically insignificant number of gun accidents.
    Tragic, yes, but hardly a good argument for banning guns.