Boat/pram of Choice?

#31
I own a Koffler Wideback Pram built in the last two years and it does carry the sticker "should not be used in deep water or far from shore". I am not aware of any floatation options offered by Joe.

To be fair, it should be noted that I fished out of a 10 ft. Hopper II for several years. I purchased the Koffler, in part, because of it's increased stability on stillwater.
 

Jim Wheeler

Full time single dad and pram builder
#33
bigfun4me,

Thanks for the info. I though Joe did offer it as an upgrade/option but maybe not. I know the WideBack is a bit wider but also about 50-70# heavier. I get into the discussion a lot during the course of the year about weight -vs- stability. You could build two boats, the same boat, just one of them being 50-70 heavier and the heavier boat would feel more stable. Weight equals stability. It takes longer to get the mass moving. Jim
 

Jim Mcallister

AKA stillwater guy
#34
I have been researching small boats for fly fishing (stable and small) to go inside my van. I decided to build my own. It is 7.5 ft long & 4 ft wide, weighs about 6o lbs. Made of all wood. I have attached pole holders to troll floating or intermediate lines. First trip out, was at Prices Lake near Hoosport. I carried on back approx. 150 yards downhill w/o stopping. I have been asked by fly club members to build more. Looking for interest and input. I needed a boat to stand up and cast and stretch AND stay dry-something you can't do in a pontoon boat. Very stable. In a pinch, can carry gear, wife, and a small child. I am considering building a 10' version. I have been told a good price range would be approx. $400-500 for the 7.5'. In mine, I have pole holders, windless anchor and pully with mahogney trim. I am considering making storage spot in front. They will be painted with aryclic urethane automotive paint. A 68 yo club member who purchased this model was able to launch and reload the pram on his own. The pram can be tested on the small lake I live on. Appreciate any input or suggestions. I will have photos to post at a later date.
 

yellowlab

Active Member
#35
bigfun4me,

Thanks for the info. I though Joe did offer it as an upgrade/option but maybe not. I know the WideBack is a bit wider but also about 50-70# heavier. I get into the discussion a lot during the course of the year about weight -vs- stability. You could build two boats, the same boat, just one of them being 50-70 heavier and the heavier boat would feel more stable. Weight equals stability. It takes longer to get the mass moving. Jim
So Jim, would a light boat not be stable? What about the beam size? And footprint on the water? Seems like less displacement of water equals more stability. I don't own Kofflers or Springcreeks anymore. Both good boats in my book but I'm a bit confused by the statement of weight on a boat improving stability.
 

ryfly

Addicted to flyfishing
#36
I would be interested in a $400-$500 7.5 foot pram. Send some pictures and maybe we can do some business.

Ryan
 

Jim Wheeler

Full time single dad and pram builder
#37
You need to separate "feel" with "reality". The reality is that both boats would be just as stable by definition. However, the lighter boat would "feel" more stable because you would be able to move less mass faster with the same energy (trying to rock the boat port and starboard while stading). With the same energy, in a heavier boat things would move slower, therefore it would "feel" more stable. As we get older "we" don't move as fast as we used to either, which usually isn't taken into account and should be. I can put a 30 year old guy and then a 60 year old guy in the same boat. One will think it's stable, the other won't. It's not the boat. What about beam size. Again, you could build two boats, both with a 40" bottom widths. One with a 50" beam, one with a 60" beam. They're the same with regards to stability. It's what is "in" the water that counts (in most cases). That answers your "footprint" question too. Displacement, on it's own equates more to the weight than the design although they do both make a difference. The more mass in the water, the more friction against the water and also the chine design aids in the stability as well. A hard chine as opposed to a rounded chine will be far more stable. Kind of like a ball in the water against a cube shape. The cube is far more difficult to get from one side onto another whereas the ball has virtually no resistance to rolling. Hull shape also has a part in stability which is (I am assuming here) why Koffler went with a wider stern. If you look down in a drift boat or most white water prams they're narrow at both the bow and stern. Think of the shape as hammock. I saw a guy put a 20hp outboard on a drift boat up a Sekui (twice actually). Both guys were going 15 maybe and both of them (two different years up there) went to pick up something off the floor or a seat and turned a bit too sharp. Both of them corkscrewed the boats into the water because there was nothing in the way of a chine in the stern of the boat to push against the force of the outboard. So, a lot of probably worthless information for you here but interesting. You just don't throw numbers in the air and build a boat. It really is a bit more difficult than that. Maybe that's why Smith Brothers have been in business haven't changed their design in oh, 60 years maybe.