9lb G.L steel

#46
It's funny that some folks in the western US always feel the need to ruin a good thread by arguing that GL Steelhead aren't "really" Steelhead. Yet, whenever someone in the western US mentions fishing for Stripers, Shad, or Brook Trout out there, you don't see anyone getting their panties in a bunch about whether they are "really" Stripers, Shad or Brookies. Anyone want to take a stab at either of those questions? 1. Are they really Stripers, Shad or Brookies, because after all, they're all transplants? 2. Why those of us in the eastern US don't feel the need to get all petty and split hairs on such a pointless subject? Come to think of it, when you mention fishing for trout in South America or New Zealand, you don't see people splitting hairs about whether those are really (insert name here) trout, because they were transplanted there ... blah, blah, blah.

We share so many passions ... fishing, fishing with flies, swinging flies, steelhead, nature, conservation, etc, and yet that isn't enough to keep some from being petty.

I realize that not all folks in the western US are so petty, and apologize for my generalization, but this @#%$ get's old ... this my @#$#$@# is bigger than yours @#$Q#$#.

I wish you all tight lines no matter where you fish or what you fish for.

Best regards,

Dave Fulton
 

Chris Bellows

Your Preferred WFF Poster
#47
It's funny that some folks in the western US always feel the need to ruin a good thread by arguing that GL Steelhead aren't "really" Steelhead. Yet, whenever someone in the western US mentions fishing for Stripers, Shad, or Brook Trout out there, you don't see anyone getting their panties in a bunch about whether they are "really" Stripers, Shad or Brookies. Anyone want to take a stab at either of those questions? 1. Are they really Stripers, Shad or Brookies, because after all, they're all transplants? 2. Why those of us in the eastern US don't feel the need to get all petty and split hairs on such a pointless subject? Come to think of it, when you mention fishing for trout in South America or New Zealand, you don't see people splitting hairs about whether those are really (insert name here) trout, because they were transplanted there ... blah, blah, blah.
well, the simple reason is that the species are all the same. rainbows are the same throughout the world.... the only hair splitting is over the anadramous version of rainbows. but a striped bass is a striped bass, whether it's crashing bait off the hudson or the sacramento. a brook trout is the same species whether chasing a carrie stephens streamer near rangeley, maine or sipping a mayfly off a high mountain lake in colorado. a rainbow is the same species stuffed with salmon eggs in alaska or in a clear stream in new zealand.

steelhead are defined by their life history going between fresh water and saltwater... and i don't see the splitting hairs when discussing the steelhead that migrate into south american rivers from the saltwater due to their saltwater water residence.

i think it's a bit silly (even though i agree in principle), since it is a common term used throughout the great lakes... but i think your comparison is silly and misses the point.... it's not about being transplants but about life history.

i was just thinking how it is interesting that there is not the same discussion in relation to chinook or coho salmon in the great lakes.... only steelhead.... but it probably has something to do with life history vs. genes.

meh.... i need winter to end
 

KerryS

Ignored Member
#48
HA!!! my ass!!
we might not have "TRUE" steel....but we do have TRUE baseball!!!!


twins 5-1 final!! this is being nice. if i wasnt on a washington forum i would probably say 5-0 shutout, twins victory, Liriano pitching a no hitter!!!!
Complete hyjack........................................

2 to 0, Ms. So much for your prediction

....oops, my mistake 4 to 1.
 
#49
This is getting a bit rediculous, just wanting to show you all some RAINBOW pics and all the western egos come out on SOME of you. So I bet our kings arent real kings, our cohos arent real coho and are steelhead arent real steelhead, and our ways of fly fishing probly aint real flyfishing, and I thought we argue about stupid sh#$ !!!! Like some of you mentioned lake erie has come a long way, and our DRN has done alot for us here. So im proud of our strain of STEELHEAD, look forward to fishing for them every year just as much as all you for your ''REAL STEELHEAD''. So to MOST of you all who were very nice,and full of compliments thanks again. Oneday I hope to fish washington rivers while im visiting my inlaws and hope to maybe meet a few of you, until then I think i will quit post pics of fish. Good luck to most of you tight lines and hope to see pics of your fish!!!!
 

KerryS

Ignored Member
#52
Oneday I hope to fish washington rivers while im visiting my inlaws and hope to maybe meet a few of you,
If you are up Skagit way in the spring let me know and I will show you some of the Skagit/Sauk. I would love to see you hook into one of the Skagit's big boys.

Don't worry to much about the GL/Pacific steelhead debates. They have been going on for a long time. Problem seems that some have thier diapers on to tight.
 
#53
Good game and here's to a good season for both teams.
cheers to that!. we got a long road ahead of us. Griffey is still the man, i was like 10 or 12 years old when he started playing. i use to worship him. hopefully the mariners play more like they just did and not like last year. hernadez did well so did liriano, just wasnt in our cards tonight.
 
#54
What impresses me about the GLs is the success story that the pacific salmon and steelhead/lake run rainbows have had.
the GLs and the rivers that flowed into the GLs were wasted, not wasted beyond repair and now have been repaired and have great runs of fish in them.
Kinda makes me wonder what is wrong with the picture here in the PNW.
Maybe we (the PNWners) need to take a lesson in fish management.
Just something to think about.
Gary, those waters are still freaking wasted. The mercury and pcb content in those fish are off the chart. 90% of the GL "steelhead" are planted every year. Some try to spawn but very few are successfull. The GLs are still a toxic waste dump, only the water doesn't catch on fire "literally" every couple of years and your skin won't peel off if you wet wade anymore.

Duff, you are correct, these are not steelhead. But I'll tell ya that a GL fish will pull just as hard as anything out here.. and the lake run Browns, forget about it. Torpedo shaped freight trains.
 
#55
and you took my answer in a typical douchebag fashion. you asked for anyone to chime in and i did. my main point is that they are not steelhead, but they will continue to be called steelhead no matter what biologists or west coast fishermen state... and that's what WE have to accept, no matter what, they will be called steelhead in 100-200 years.

maybe i'll post in a thread about nymphing asking bobber manufacturers to answer if strike indicators are any different than bobbers and shouldn't they be called bobbers.... and then i'll get sand in my vagina when someone who is not a bobber manufacturer states that they are bobbers but to accept that people will call them strike indicators.

coach duff :mad: 3....2....1....

You are mentally challenged at best. Douchebag? For asking for a scientific clarification? I don't care one way or the other, it interests me from a scientific perspective. I don't have to accept anything, especially from a dumbass who gives me a "because that's the way it is" answer. So, are there inherent differences in the Great Lakes (salt content, ect) than other bodies of large fresh water don't have that would officially give these fish the steelhead tag in scientific circles? Or are they just big beautiful lake running rainbows no matter what the size or content of the Great Lakes and called steelhead due to their ancestors? Or have we redefined steelhead due to the size of the freshwater they swim in which is cool also. Are they genetically showing the characteristics of ocean run rainbows at all? Do they change in behavior or show genetic change when they leave the lakes and enter their natal streams? Do they have a propensity to exhibit ocean feeding behaviors in those giant lakes or do they continue to act like freshwater run rainbows and clue in on hatches in the Great Lakes? I'm not fucking with anybody, not slighting anybody, not being an elitist and not starting any shit. I don't care one bit if those fish are called steelhead. Good on all of ya. I am asking a simple set of questions which so far clowns like Topwater have given piss ant answers to and then gotten defensive. Triggs was the only angler to actually make sense and share some knowledge. Can someone with some scientific base chime in....... If this is too much just say so, and I'll talk to some folks who can actually clue me in on the bigger picture. Calling these fish steelhead is fully accepted nowdays and have we adjusted our definitions or such species due to the behaviors of these big rainbows? I don't know about anybody else but that thought is very interesting and very cool to me. I love all fish and love the possiblitites and scientific bases we continually expand together. Coach

PS Topwater I can put this post in a picture book if you like and then you can join in!
 

Jake Bannon

nymphs for steelhead....
#56
I just dont see why everyone just cant congradulate the dude on catching a couple nice fish....I mean my god, we have had more bitching topics in the last couple months than the previous couple years. It starts out with someone pointing out that those fish arnt steelhead, then moves onto saying tht Pacific fish are better than GL fish. :beathead: Fish is a fish and Im sure he had a shit load of fun catching them......steelbows, is everyone happy now? :D


jake
 

Ed Call

Well-Known Member
#57
Can everyone take a deep breath, untwist your freaking knickers and exhale.

This is getting a bit rediculous, just wanting to show you all some RAINBOW pics and all the western egos come out on SOME of you. So I bet our kings arent real kings, our cohos arent real coho and are steelhead arent real steelhead, and our ways of fly fishing probly aint real flyfishing, and I thought we argue about stupid sh#$ !!!! Like some of you mentioned lake erie has come a long way, and our DRN has done alot for us here. So im proud of our strain of STEELHEAD, look forward to fishing for them every year just as much as all you for your ''REAL STEELHEAD''. So to MOST of you all who were very nice,and full of compliments thanks again. Oneday I hope to fish washington rivers while im visiting my inlaws and hope to maybe meet a few of you, until then I think i will quit post pics of fish. Good luck to most of you tight lines and hope to see pics of your fish!!!!
Kruggy1, post all you want, great looking fish no matter what you call it. If lifecycle dictates steelhead v. rainbow the you have some kick ass rainbows (that came from steelhead stock back in the day if I'm not mistaken from one of the Columbia River tribs).

As for your chinook and coho, they were born chinook and coho so they are chinook and coho even if they are in a system where they can't get out to the salt to feed. Hell, maybe I'm the douchebag now, but back to your whateverinthehell it is called fish, wish I caught that sucker! Thanks for posting.
 
#59
Gary, those waters are still freaking wasted. The mercury and pcb content in those fish are off the chart. 90% of the GL "steelhead" are planted every year. Some try to spawn but very few are successfull. The GLs are still a toxic waste dump, only the water doesn't catch on fire "literally" every couple of years and your skin won't peel off if you wet wade anymore.

Duff, you are correct, these are not steelhead. But I'll tell ya that a GL fish will pull just as hard as anything out here.. and the lake run Browns, forget about it. Torpedo shaped freight trains.
There you have some great info. I was under the assumption that large numbers of these beauties were wild or self propogating. Here I find out from one of the WFF brothers that 90percent are planted every year. Very interesting stuff as is the pollution levels (which I also thought had been improved greatly but was wrong). Thanks for shedding some light Be Jofus.
PS Today I had a client who has a factory in Ohio and does the steelhead thing there often. He threw me some great info on many fronts. Told me same as Be Jofus that few of them spawn successfully. I had visions of the fish hatching and after a year or two heading to the Great Lakes and blasting baitfish for a few years of big time growth much as ours would head out to the ocean. There has to be some solid wild stocks.

PS for the last fucking time, I am not trying to win some battle stopping these big rainbows from being called steelhead. I am trying to look at them scientifically, look at the waters they swim, life histories, food sources, genetic changes ect and maybe they are a new way to look at steelhead. But if 90% are hatchery, it seems they have not done as well as I have assumed in that part of the country due to pollution, population, (same problems we have been getting smoked by). I really thought there were very large wild self producing sustained runs in the GL due to the numbers of fish being hooked and other reasons. If 90% are hatchery how many smolts are being released each year to come up with the pretty obviously damn large numbers of returning fish? Has to be big!
 
#60
Gary, those waters are still freaking wasted. The mercury and pcb content in those fish are off the chart. 90% of the GL "steelhead" are planted every year. Some try to spawn but very few are successfull. The GLs are still a toxic waste dump, only the water doesn't catch on fire "literally" every couple of years and your skin won't peel off if you wet wade anymore.
Dude, you are way off here. Where are you getting your info? Have you been to the great lakes or fished there? They are definitely NOT toxic waste dumps nor do the fish have any more mercury or pcb than some of the fish caught from puget sound or the pacific ocean. The GL are gorgeous bodies of water with diverse fisheries and wonderful salmon and trout fishing. The DNR and other state resources have done a fantastic job cleaning up the lakes and while some spots are still in the rehab stages, many many hundreds of square miles of fresh water are just that, fresh clean and beautiful. As a person who spent most of my life exploring the lakes and streams of upper Michigan as well as ones of the PNW now for 3 years, both places ooze beauty in their own unique ways. Anyone who is a flyfisher person deserves to spend some time fishing the big Manistee, Au Sable, Two hearted, and the 1000s of other streams that feed the GLs.