NFR: The state of the forum

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I spend very little time on fly fishing forumns any more, point of dimiishing returns set in a few years ago for me. Ten years of it was enough, better off going to read a fishing book, or evey perhaps go fishing. :thumb:



Greg Price

Love da little fishies
Hi Allison,

Hey, I remember you posted some usefull info on flyfishing the central wa lakes last spring. I appreiceated that because I was not able to fish those areas and enjoy living them vicarously thorugh reports posted by you and others.

I have been a member of WFF for only one year, so I was not privillaged to experience this forum from years past like you have.

What has changed? How was it better in the past? What can we do to make it better?

I really enjoy the forum now and am sad to think that I missed out on the "good old days"

Chris's idea to get us to use our real names is a positive.

I am guilty for expressing my feelings on the fly shop in Seattle that had an owner who gave consistant service, but man that took a weight off my chest to say it and it was good to find out I was not the only one who had the exact same experience as mine. Chris deleted that thread for which I am gratefull.

Thanks for weighing in, Allison, and starting this thread. Maybe us newbies can learn from your experience to make this a better place to be.

Old Man

Just an Old Man
Well when I'm dead and gone you will have the good old days to yourself. When this site was smaller it was a close knit group.

Some of the outings had many members show up. So of the Dry Falls outings were a blast. Thirty members could throw a good drunk. Like the one at Yakima one October that I remember. What a hangover.

Alex MacDonald

that's His Lordship, to you.....
Thanks for reminding me, Jim-I'm gonna mix me a drink and have a cigar! This thread reminds me of Burgess Meridith's line in "Grumpy old Men"..."I'm 94 years old; what the HELL do I care?". Gotta love it!
Allison -- I found it quite fascinating when you did this to the Hi-Lakers!

You really stirred up their nest for a while with your critiques.
I'd like to think I didn't "do" anything to the HL club except ask what kind of club it wanted to be. I got my answer, and then I moved on.

Now the Hi-Lakers seems a vital force once again, and I rejoined the club recently. I probably did little to cause that, but I'm happy it happened, because I was not at all comfortable asking the questions.

It is weird to watch a forum make that jump to very large and more impersonal, but it seems inevitable. Still a good forum here, do not get me wrong on that.

i agree with most of what everyone said. what disturbs me is when members do a post just to build up the number of posts and nothing is added to the thread. not that i am always doing the right thing but it took me 5 years to get 1000 posts. mike w

Old Man

Just an Old Man
i agree with most of what everyone said. what disturbs me is when members do a post just to build up the number of posts and nothing is added to the thread. not that i am always doing the right thing but it took me 5 years to get 1000 posts. mike w
When I first joined this forum, it seemed like I tried to answer every post. But now that I've been here just about as long as it's been on the web I don't anymore. This is still a fun forum don't get me wrong. But with it's growth it seems to have lost a little on the way.

It went from one forum to about eight now, give ot take one or two. So I guess you lose a little in it.

Too many how to questions. Like what should I use or what fly. I could go on but why. I think most questions should be asked at the local fly shop. They have way better answers than most here will give you. Besides I don't listen to anybody here. I so set in my ways that when ever I buy something I get what I want and not what everybody thinks I should get. Afterall it is me using it.

Here I go again off on another tanget.

Latest Report:

Didn’t go fishin’ Saturday. Went to the T… Lake shindig instead. Didn’t catch any fish.

Didn’t fish on Sunday. Didn’t catch any fish either.

Hope this report makes all the “Protectors of Secrets” happy!!

Less drivel – more facts – no secrets…..

All done, bye, bye!

Hope this report makes all the “Protectors of Secrets” happy!!

Since Allison has asked a great question, and the forum is growing, I thought I'd clue a few of you in ettiquette and the shit way a bunch of you fish for fishing spots. I love to share how to, what line, which rod, what fly, how to cast, what general area of a river, what time of year in an area, what presentation which floating craft, ect ect ect ect. I love sharing all of that with most anybody. In fact a bunch of us take great pride in giving out any information in any way we can to help everyone around us in any way to catch more fish. It's to continue on the flyfishing traditon of helping newbies just as we were taught by our mentors. It really is the fabric that holds together our community. A unique community of sharing, fun, drink and some tall tails. But you know what? I'm tired of folks bitching and trying to "turn things around" or become victims because some of us do not and will not give away rivers, lakes and "spots" In fact one of the pre-internet joys of flyfishing was the trial and error process of getting skunked, enjoying nature and then finally finding that "spot" and enjoying it for a few years before it was found out by others. How in the hell do some of you have the balls to attack and ridicule members for wanting specific fishing spots out of public forums or websites? Some of you are like little kids who are told NO when they ask for a cookie.:rolleyes: You stamp your feet, cry, whine, jest at with rolled eyes and if that doesn't work, you go on the attack. Now the comeback is always "There are no secrets anymore". Really? Then why are you "fishing" on this site? Than why are these forums pounded by new anglers the world over every day all day. Than why do some of us land 10-50 winter runs in one river every year and the rest of the community averages 1-5 a winter. It's water selection as much as anything else. More fish, less pressure equals better flyfishing most of the time. I would show you how to cast, which line, what fly, but never ever "WHERE" when I was a steelhead bum. NEVER! I paddled, drove, hiked, crawled and climbed into those spots. There are runs, lakes, creeks and rivers that afford good to great fishing in Washington even in 2009 and nobody is obligated to give them to you because you asked. When they politely say NO, it should end there out of respect for each other as anglers. But not in 2009. That is their right, just as it is your right to try to discover those spots by fishing online or lurking in the shadows on 27 different flyfishing sites like some folks do. I figured out this bonefish fishery (and am still learning every day) by FISHING, not online, not in a tavern, not in a "club". And I understand some of us have limited time with family, jobs, and the like. I'd ask where to fish myself if I was time strapped. Hell I have been there many times on vacations, ect. But I do not and will never expect a fellow angler to give me his best places if asked. I respect my fellow angler enough to know those spots are his/hers. Maybe some of you are too new to this stuff to understand that. You don't ask other anglers how sex is with their wife, just as you don't ask them where their favorite trout river, steelhead run, or Kamloops lake is and expect a straight honest answer. If you ask me, I give you something in the top 10 if I like you and if you are pushy I give you a shit spot and let you figure out it sucks. I know of a pond that still exists in the Seattle area has loads of wild cutthroat up to 20 inches, and still is only fished by the one buddy (Marty) I showed it to 8 years ago before I left Seattle. He has never run into another angler there and it fishes as good now as it did 8 years ago. It will continue to do so, maybe even get better. For a reason...........

If they want to share their "spots" online, more power to them, but if they don't have some class, thank them for the information you did get and move on with a smile and a tip of the cap and wish them "Tight lines!" That's flyfishing. Tight lines Coach


Ugly member
Maybe it's just me, but does anyone else see the irony in a thread whining and complaining on the forum about, well, whining and complaining on the forum?:D

I think most of the problems arise from people not liking when someone disagrees with them and something in the translation from the internet gets lost. I agree with what Josh said about most folks, even though they are annoying as hell on here, are actually probably cool to fish with or around.

Just my 2 cents plus tax
Sorry Coach, guess I hid the sarcasm too well – it was all tongue-in-cheek….I’ll try to be more obvious next time.

The point was to illustrate the extremes of response by both sides of the “endless debate/debacle” of “entitlement rights vs. earned rights” here. It frequently reaches such levels of absurdity that I can’t restrain myself. Other times the advice can be astonishingly helpful and candid. Usually the latter is more beneficial to a new(bie) in the sport of fly fishing.

I recognize that it is the aim of many here to restrict or constrain information so as to dis-courage those new to the game because they think (?) there’s already too many intruders weasling into their game of fly fishing anyway. Then there are others who have repeatedly demonstrated nothing more than just an old-fashioned mean streak, jealousy or possessiveness in their responses to inquiries, apparently believing that the less others know, the better. I also recognize that how an inquiry is framed or presented often influences the reaction and there are likely as many that don’t know how to do that in order to achieve the best results for the inquirer, as there are those that don’t have a clue on how to enhance the pleasure & enjoyment of others in regards to any pursuit.

Not to get too far off the track here, allow me to present a few examples of “Entitlement rights vs. Earned rights!” If I were to hire you as my guide/mentor for some bonefishing in Hawaii, would you take me to the least productive locations and advocate the least productive flies & techniques? Probably not. Why, because that would obviously not be in your best interest. Why? Because the nature of successful guiding services is largely word-of-mouth – in spite of the large sums spent by some on glossy advertising! Now lets assume (dangerous, I know) that awhile later after booking a few more trips with you and other local guides, I decide that “guiding bone fishing trips” is for me. So I buy a boat and all the gear that goes with bone fishing (after all, I’ve learned from the best - AND I am quite wealthy) and commence guiding and catching fish, in the same areas that you use, for myself and my clients. This is, I suspect, sheer blasphemy and in total violation of all the written and unwritten rules….but I digress:

Should I be in fear of my life for this infringement upon your and others “sacred, earned territory” and dread the inevitable “contract” being issued by the “Protectors?”

What about the River Guide who provides the same services for his paying clientele and later sees his client on the same river with his own drift boat (or not) catching fish like crazy – because he was taught “where and how” by the “best?”

Do we need to overtly or covertly solicit the approval of the established community of “whomever, whatever, wherever” to exercise our freedoms? Or is it okay to exercise them as long as we don’t presume to ask anybody any specific questions about anything that pertains to anything the “askee” might know anything about unless we’ve paid that somebody for their services?

I mean, where’s the line-of-demarcation between “entitled and not-entitled?” Is it clearly marked so all can tell at a glance where it is and what it looks like? I wonder because it seems that if it was all so clear there would be no further need for any questions from anyone about anything – we’d all just know the truth, sort of “divine-like”, ya know? Well, except for the blind & stupid of course.

To be more specific, exactly when is it considered sufficient to have, “paid one’s dues?” By shredding countless waders, bush wacking how many miles into lost & forgotten lakes ‘n streams, burned how many gallons of expensive fuel and how many times to have been rebuffed by how many “serious anglers” in the endless quest for decent fishing? When does one graduate from the “un-serious, un-entitled novice” to the seasoned veteran angler where all good things come at will? When the novice stops asking questions? When the “salts” stop insulting and demeaning him? When he’s made 1.31 million crappy casts – with the wrong fly in the wrong water at the wrong times with the wrong presentation? Does the novice transform into one who commands respect when he stops asking questions? Or just stops asking stupid uninformed questions?

Maybe when he’s gone through 3 wives because he spent waaaay too much time fly fishing and left his wifey’s alone to ponder their choice of husbands too often – misplaced passions perhaps? Or now that he has no wives, he has lots of time to fly fish….but no real passion for it anymore wishing instead he had the company of a good woman on cold nights. Let’s see now, the last one was 25 years ago and all three were in the first 12 years….and he’s had lots of time to fish since the last one….and ponder his choices and his passions.

Just askin’, Coach because I have enormous respect for your opinions on nearly everything that I’ve read here on the forum. If you’ve written any books, I haven’t read those yet.


Jc (Jon)
BTW, I’d like to book a bone fishing trip with you one of these days….seriously!
As many of said before "Nothing replaces time on the water", prior to internet thats what we did, went fishing as much as possible learning over time how various rivers fished well during the runs, usually took a few years to start to figure out one river.


JC all I said was this in my typical long winded rambling half baked way:

Ask all you want. If those asked say they would rather not share that info, than have the class to not then turn it around and start bashing them, something that happens far too often on all of these sites by folks who "WANT IT NOW" Veruca Salt style. It's your right to ask anything you want, and it's their right to give as much information as they want. Simple shit, but seldom followed without a bunch of bitching, whining and foot stomping. Be happy with whatever information you get newbies, before the internet anglers still with kids, a job, a wife and the same shit we have today. And since information was earnred they seldom handed it around like a paper bag with a wine bottle in it like today on the internet. Coach
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