Can't keep um pinned

kelvin

Active Member
#31
What color socks are you wearing? I've found the best luck with white crew with gray heel and toe. I'm assuming you are talking about setting on the strip? It could be the added length of the rod and flex that is not driving the hooks like your use to with shorter rods -- particularly if you're rod is not in direct line with the line (off to the side somewhat) ? But what the hell do I know, I swore to myself not to go down switch rod road... single hand and spey is plenty of variety for me.
try breathing out of your right eye lid like a lava lizard and dont change your drawers until you bring one to hand
 

ten80

Active Member
#33
Steve brings up a good point. Sharp hooks are an absolute must, and hooks with long shanks (i.e. streamer hooks) and small gape (<3/8") should be avoided for salmon in the salt. The hook needs to be sharp enough to penetrate both the hard jaw plates and bones and/or drive deeply into soft tissue (tongue or roof of mouth). I won't run less than a size 2 in the salt as I feel that going smaller means shallower penetration and hook retention. It is also important to use hooks that do not have a perfectly round bend; a kink and offset to before the point help keep the jaw of the fish set in the bend of the hook, even during prolonged fights.

For patterns too short for a stinger but too long to be tied on a octopus hook, use a longer shanked but still octopus-style hook such as the Gamekatsu Baitholder hooks (no.
05109 for sz 2) which have an offset point and kink in the bend to prevent the hook from being thrown.

If money were no object, I'd run only Owner cutting point octopus hooks as they are sharp as knives. Since I go through a lot of flies I go for more affordable Allen and Gamekatsu octopus hooks which are nearly as sharp at a fraction the cost.
 

Bagman

Active Member
#34
What kind of hooks are you using, Al?
I'm using Mustad 34007 #2s and #4s on my shorter flys and Gamakatsu 02009 Octopus #2s and #4s on my stingers. Yes I check to make sure my hooks are sharp before I tye as well as after each hit, and then every so often as I may hit the rocks behind me once in awhile. This is the fly my getting my most takes with.
 

Attachments

Stonefish

Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater
#35
Bagman,
Nice looking fly. Just an obsevation based on the picture you posted. It looks like the hook point is pretty well buried in the material.
That doesn't leave much gap for hooking up. Perhaps more hook shows when it is wet?
For stinger, leave your loop long enough and you can change out the hook if it gets dinged. You'll get longer life out of your flies.
Also take a look at the barbless Gamakatsu Octopus hooks. It is a different shape and has a wider gap then the standard barbed Octopus. It is shaped more like a circle hook withour the point being so pronounced. If you buy them in the 25 economy packs they are very reasonable price wise.
SF
 

Richard E

Active Member
#36
Last year I only lost one fish and that was a bad knot. This year I'm not doing as well. For some reason I just can't keep them on. Last year I fished a floating line only, this year I'm going back and forth between floating and sinking (1.5 IPS). I seem to loose fish no matter which line I'm fishing. Last year I fished a 9' 7wt rod. This year I've started fishing a 10'8" 8wt Switch rod. Is it just me or do I need to change the way I set the hook with a switch rod?
When this happens for me it's typically my hook has become dinged or dull. Just had that happen at Sekiu. I was using the same hooks and setup over a few days. On the third day after several lost fish I checked the hooks, and the tips had started to rust and the tips weren't sharp. A little touch-up on the hooks, and bingo, back in the game with no fish lost.

Could be the switch rod, too. I find it easier to keep 'em on tight with single handed rod. That's me, though.
 

Bagman

Active Member
#37
Bagman,
Nice looking fly. Just an obsevation based on the picture you posted. It looks like the hook point is pretty well buried in the material.
That doesn't leave much gap for hooking up. Perhaps more hook shows when it is wet?
For stinger, leave your loop long enough and you can change out the hook if it gets dinged. You'll get longer life out of your flies.
Also take a look at the barbless Gamakatsu Octopus hooks. It is a different shape and has a wider gap then the standard barbed Octopus. It is shaped more like a circle hook with the point being so pronounced. If you buy them in the 25 economy packs they are very reasonable price wise.
SF
I just picked up some of the barbless like you are talking about. I have not used any of them, but I did notice the difference. I have attached a pix of the same fly wet. Please let me know if I should make some changes. Other then the longer loop that is. I find that this material gets really chewed up by the fish, and let me tell you the Bullheads seem to come from miles away for
this fly. Not that I'm trying to give every Bullhead in the Sound a sore mouth
but sometimes it feels like it.
 

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Bagman

Active Member
#38
When this happens for me it's typically my hook has become dinged or dull. Just had that happen at Sekiu. I was using the same hooks and setup over a few days. On the third day after several lost fish I checked the hooks, and the tips had started to rust and the tips weren't sharp. A little touch-up on the hooks, and bingo, back in the game with no fish lost.


Could be the switch rod, too. I find it easier to keep 'em on tight with single handed rod. That's me, though.
I'm going to be fishing from my boat tomorrow. I will have two rods set up with different lines. Both rods are 9' so maybe I will see a difference in my hook up to fish in hand %. I will let you know.
 

ten80

Active Member
#40
Bagman, your fly looks pretty good, but I'd still put the stinger farther back and maybe go up one hook size. This is my usual "awful clouser" pattern which has landed over 12 coho with less than a handful lost (no pink data yet). Notice that the stinger hook is at the very end of the tail material; I think that there is no drawback to having the stinger this far back.
 

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Bagman

Active Member
#41
Bagman, your fly looks pretty good, but I'd still put the stinger farther back and maybe go up one hook size. This is my usual "awful clouser" pattern which has landed over 12 coho with less than a handful lost (no pink data yet). Notice that the stinger hook is at the very end of the tail material; I think that there is no drawback to having the stinger this far back.
I try to keep my hook in the matrial. It just seems to me like it would be the best of both a tail strike, as well as a head hit. This will be the first time I've fished this pattern with a stinger. I may just tye up a few with a longer loop and some with #1 hooks.
By the way I like your pattern.
 

porterHause

Just call me Jon
#42
The start of my season saw me go 1/14, using both a single hander and a switch. Once you get the strip set down, you'll start landing. Now that I've got the kinks out, strip setting on fish produces a very pronounced shock in the rod that is damn satisfying.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is that the pinks have very mushy mouths. Most of the time I lose fish now I finish my stomp of disappointment with "I'm pretty sure I just ripped his face off." The pink I landed this AM was on the brink of having a severely split lip, and that's not the first one. Let em run if they want to run...
 

Richard E

Active Member
#43
I always check my hooks right after i pinch off the barb. I pull it over my nail before i put it in the vice. I will also get some Mustad c71 hooks.
It's not about the hook being sharp going in to the vise; it's about it being sharp while you're using it. If you're beach fishing (and it sounds like you are), you're likely dinging the beach behind you from time to time. That will kill a hook in no time.

The C71 hook is a nice hook, but really gotta like the Gamakatsu octopus hooks and the Owner Mosquito.
 

fish-on

Waters haunt me....
#44
This

The start of my season saw me go 1/14, using both a single hander and a switch. Once you get the strip set down, you'll start landing. Now that I've got the kinks out, strip setting on fish produces a very pronounced shock in the rod that is damn satisfying.
 

fish-on

Waters haunt me....
#45
And this:

The C71 hook is a nice hook, but really gotta like the Gamakatsu octopus hooks and the Owner Mosquito.
Those mosquito hooks are pretty darn effective. Really sharp and very thin. Goes in the fish's mouth real easy and it seems to stay there..

The wide gap barbless octopus hooks Stonefish mentioned are equally as good.....

Tight lines


John