NFR LOL government in a nutshell

Status
Not open for further replies.
#91
I consider myself right of center - But to Say that Obama Care is middle of the road policy and then quote Paul Krugman is pretty funny to me Richard.
Obama Care did not get one R vote, not even the most enlighten Republicans thought this bill was good for the country. Nancy, Harry and our President used their control of Congress and the Executive branch to push this into law. I often wonder how a scholar like Paul Krugman would react if a Republican Congress and President pushed some kind of social change with out one D vote. I think many Americans right and left of center are very concerned about more entitlements, more debt and more government control over the people - seeing that SS and Medicare are in such rough shape has to be cause of concern.

Its funny if Obama Care fails - no government official is going to say well it failed, we republicans told you so - so lets just dismantle this law. Now here is the scary part ...................ready, they will try and fix it with more laws, that won't work. So they will try and fix it with more laws, then a few more and more after that. Then in about 20 years our health care laws will look like our tax laws. Sounds like fun.
The ACA passed the senate, passed through congress, the supreme court and executive branches. It's a done deal, and the current congress would have the votes (including those of enough Republicans) to pass a clean budget bill and move on to the next issue. The teapublican minority, including Boehner, is preventing that vote from happening. This is extortion, and hostage tactics being forced by a minority who has lost and has no other way out. I can't believe what they're doing is even legal.
 
#92
I consider myself right of center - But to Say that Obama Care is middle of the road policy and then quote Paul Krugman is pretty funny to me Richard.
If you read my post correctly, you would note that I said it was middle of the road for 1960s/1970s. Today, Congress, and, possibly, public opinion has shifted far to the right, although the unholy impact of big money on politics and public opinion skews that perception, methinks.

D
 

plaegreid

Saved by the buoyancy of citrus
#93
I can't believe what they're doing is even legal.

I can't believe that they're getting paid to do it. I am 95% sure that if Congress didn't get paid during a shutdown that the gubmint would never shut down. Their salaries should be the first to get nixed.
 
#94
First David Loy you are believing a myth if you think Canadians don't like their health care. My daughter had two children in Alberta when she was married to a Canadian citizen. She had great health care. She and the kiddos were completely insured for 68 bucks a month in Alberta.
jesse
 
#95
I can't believe that they're getting paid to do it. I am 95% sure that if Congress didn't get paid during a shutdown that the gubmint would never shut down. Their salaries should be the first to get nixed.
Hearing the quotes from a few of the reps who voted for the shut down regarding their paychecks is sickening...

"I need my paycheck. That's the bottom line," Rep. Renee Ellmers (NC)

"you know what? I’ve got a nice house and a kid in college, and I’ll tell you we cannot handle it. Giving our paycheck away when you still worked and earned it? That’s just not going to fly.” North Dakota’s Kevin Cramer
 

plaegreid

Saved by the buoyancy of citrus
#96
Hearing the quotes from a few of the reps who voted for the shut down regarding their paychecks is sickening...

"I need my paycheck. That's the bottom line," Rep. Ellmers and

"you know what? I’ve got a nice house and a kid in college, and I’ll tell you we cannot handle it. Giving our paycheck away when you still worked and earned it? That’s just not going to fly.” North Dakota’s Kevin Cramer

I pooped a little when I read that. Do these guys not realize what they're saying? Are they in f**king bizzaro world where the games they're playing don't actually affect people? I'm sure you've already seen the video of Rep. Neugebauer berating the park ranger; this shit just boggles the mind.
 

ribka

Active Member
#98
First David Loy you are believing a myth if you think Canadians don't like their health care. My daughter had two children in Alberta when she was married to a Canadian citizen. She had great health care. She and the kiddos were completely insured for 68 bucks a month in Alberta.
jesse
First David Loy you are believing a myth if you think Canadians don't like their health care. My daughter had two children in Alberta when she was married to a Canadian citizen. She had great health care. She and the kiddos were completely insured for 68 bucks a month in Alberta.
jesse
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...s_south_for_heart_surgery.html?app=noRedirect

My friend from Alberta had his hip done in Seattle

His wife came down for a kidney op because of long wait

My primary physician left Canada because she said she disliked beaurocracy that associated with care.

We have many issues with our system but treatment for serious diseases , Ortho work etc the US still ranks very high
 
#99
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...s_south_for_heart_surgery.html?app=noRedirect

My friend from Alberta had his hip done in Seattle

His wife came down for a kidney op because of long wait

My primary physician left Canada because she said she disliked beaurocracy that associated with care.

We have many issues with our system but treatment for serious diseases , Ortho work etc the US still ranks very high
There's always anecdotal situations on the contrary. I have plenty of Canadian friends and spend a lot of time with them. I have one friend in BC who had to have reconstructive surgery on his sinuses, the same one I need. I've needed it for years, and still haven't found a way to have it done even with my insurance. He had his done within a month and has been fine ever since.
 
This is extortion, and hostage tactics being forced by a minority who has lost and has no other way out. I can't believe what they're doing is even legal.

Evan
The Republicans won the majority of the House again in the last election - with that win regardless if you agree with it or not - they have the ability to provide checks and balances - Congress has always had the power to attach almost any condition - including repealing or changing a law - to appropriations. The founders wrote the Constitution that way for good reason.
The nations first plan of government, the Articles of Confederation, had no president. When the framers gathered in 1787 to write a second more effective plan they reluctantly created the presidency. the founders worried that a president would tax and spend flagrantly as they had seen of the kings of Europe.

To prevent that, the founders created checks and balances. to check each branch of government is "effectually checked and restrained by others" Congress was given the power over the purse - the power to appropriate money and to borrow it or raise taxes, because of location, the power in Congress would force the president to constantly negotiate with Congress. It also gave the veto power to the President, as you well know

So don't worry its not extortion its legal and really how things should work. If the Republicans don't navigate well through this - the people will speak and they will be voted out by the people - another check and balance

On another note:
This is not the ACA that was passed in 2010 - here are a few items that are different from the law passed in 2010 -
the President is "illegally" picking and choosing what part to keep - Gone is the employer mandate, the cap on out-of-pocket expenses, income verification for subsidy recipients and over half the deadlines in the law.
These are shifts of billions of dollars in cost on to the tax payers, cheat seriousy ill patients, leave employees in the lurch all in a devious attempt to patch up a unworkable law from 2010.

Congress is there to protect and defend the Constitution, and withholding the money is the chief way of doing it.

Take Care

 
This is extortion, and hostage tactics being forced by a minority who has lost and has no other way out. I can't believe what they're doing is even legal.

Evan
The Republicans won the majority of the House again in the last election - with that win regardless if you agree with it or not - they have the ability to provide checks and balances - Congress has always had the power to attach almost any condition - including repealing or changing a law - to appropriations. The founders wrote the Constitution that way for good reason.
The nations first plan of government, the Articles of Confederation, had no president. When the framers gathered in 1787 to write a second more effective plan they reluctantly created the presidency. the founders worried that a president would tax and spend flagrantly as they had seen of the kings of Europe.

To prevent that, the founders created checks and balances. to check each branch of government is "effectually checked and restrained by others" Congress was given the power over the purse - the power to appropriate money and to borrow it or raise taxes, because of location, the power in Congress would force the president to constantly negotiate with Congress. It also gave the veto power to the President, as you well know

So don't worry its not extortion its legal and really how things should work. If the Republicans don't navigate well through this - the people will speak and they will be voted out by the people - another check and balance

On another note:
This is not the ACA that was passed in 2010 - here are a few items that are different from the law passed in 2010 -
the President is "illegally" picking and choosing what part to keep - Gone is the employer mandate, the cap on out-of-pocket expenses, income verification for subsidy recipients and over half the deadlines in the law.
These are shifts of billions of dollars in cost on to the tax payers, cheat seriousy ill patients, leave employees in the lurch all in a devious attempt to patch up a unworkable law from 2010.

Congress is there to protect and defend the Constitution, and withholding the money is the chief way of doing it.

Take Care
You glossed over the fact that if it went to vote today, the budget would pass Congress with plenty of Republicans voting in favor. What defense in this "checks and balanaces" is there to defend their tactic of preventing a vote?
 
I don't think a bill with funding for ObamaCare would pass the House - but having that power, just like Senator Reid has shown you have the ability to bring things to a vote or not.
 
I don't think a bill with funding for ObamaCare would pass the House - but having that power, just like Senator Reid has shown you have the ability to bring things to a vote or not.
If it wouldn't pass a vote, then Boehner wouldn't be blocking the vote. At least 20 Republicans have said they would vote in favor of the clean budget bill, which is all they need.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.