Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by kruggy1, Apr 5, 2009.
It's because they aren't really steelhead. No one's denying they're rainbow trout.:thumb:
Dude I grew up in Western PA and have property on Elk and my buddy has some on walnut. I fish there 3-4 times a year now and fished the lakes about 40-50 days a year when I lived in there. Yes the lakes have come a long way, but don't kid yourself. That water is freaking polluted. Read the goddamn fish advisory for the lakes. You are either too young or the mercury from the lake fish has clouded your capacity for memory too badly to remember what those tribs and lakes were like 20 years ago. Yes they look beautifull and the fish are rebounding but newsflash, Those chemicals and heavy metals from years and years of rustbelt mentality are still in the sediment and will be as long as we are on this planet. Fresh clean and beautifull water my ass. The damage is done and it is permenant.
Duff, They stock them in the tribs as fingerlings and they are ferioucous on the baitfish in the lakes. We used to pull plugs and spoons for them. They will also feed on insect hatches "what's left of them" now and again. I have run into a couple throwing dries at smallies off of rock pilings along deep dropoffs. Talk about a suprise pucker moment. Not all of the lack of spawing is pollution related. A lot of the tribs they stock them in dry up in the summers.. so even if they do spawn, there is no habitat to rear.
You can't 'generalise' the entire G.L. basin anymore than pigeon hole the total PNW. It's huge.. 5 individual lakes bounded by 7 large states and the monstrous province of Ontario. Lake MI alone could swallow Puget Sound twice with room left to spare. A drive from Duluth Minnesota [Lk Superior] to Pulaski NY [Lk Ontario] would be 20+ hours & approximate 1200 miles. The southern regions are heavily populated and had/have industrial fallout [sound familier] Much of the north, especially Lake Superior and Northern Lake Huron are quite pristine yet. There is diversity in the fisheries, there are areas of good healthy viable natural reproduction. Thowing a blanket over the entire GL basin.. yes, your 90% figure is probably close.
So are there guys in scuba gear holding up signs that inform the "Lake Run Rainbows" to only eat baitfish that grew up on the unpolluted 10% area of the lakes?
Here, read it. I guess I was just sitting here making this shit up? :beathead:
Not talkin about the drinking water.. discussing the fishery. Your down in the steel mill country, hatchery heaven.
Quick google search revealed these numbers "Often you hear of Erie Pennsylvania referred to as the heart of "steelhead Alley". There is a reason for that. It's near by streams contain the highest density of steelhead in the world. Pennsylvania has committed to a continued stocking of well over 1 million steelhead smolts per year. Ohio stocks 400,000 in her waters. With these factors you have less than 90 miles of shoreline receiving over 1 1/2 million fish" This is lake Erie. Look at the small amount of shoreline PA has! Have never fished it..
This is your reallity but it aint the whole gong show by a long shot.
Check some water quality tables around the Sound and see what those turn up.
This is distorted, the 10% was in reference to natural repro, not degraded water areas.
From your link
Got this far in your most recent blanket toss
My comparison isn't silly, but you did miss the point.
My point was that when people talk about fishing for Rainbows in NZ, Browns in South America, or Stripers, Shad and Brookies out west, no one pi$$e$ on their parade by starting a debate about the native range, biology or "life history" of those fish. I suspect it is because most people think it is irrelevant in the context of a guy posting a thread to share pics of some nice fish that he enjoyed catching. However, whenever someone brings up GL Steelhead, someone just can't resist trashing their thread with the stuff.
If people want to debate biology, "life history", etc of GL Steelhead (or any other fish), that's great. Start a separate thread ... heck, even any entire forum devoted to it. In fact, I would enjoy reading it because I find it interesting. However, bringing it up in in a thread where someone is sharing pics of his fish tells me that the person is either oblivious to their lack of courtesy or deliberately malicious and petty. That was my point.
P.S. If people want to be really picky and bring native range or native distribution into the arguement, then everyone can pretty much trash everyone else's fish and fisheries because of transplanting practices of the past.
I think that this thread has gone to hell and ought to be locked down. You have all beat this subject to hell. A steelhead is a sea going Rainbow trout. Being that the great Lakes take the place of the Seas in the mid west. And we see that they plant the hell out of the streams.
So how about we let this rest. As we all know what trout are.
quite possibly, this dang internet.
i honestly found my time fishing tribs of erie and ontario fascinating. there was imo an incredible diversity (whether it was messed up hatchery genetics or fish adapting i don't know). you would catch just chrome bright fish and then one creek away you would find dark spawned out fish in the fall (fall spawning rainbows being a bit odd in my opinion). then i would head out and explore another creek and it would be stuffed with 14-18 inch rainbows while another creek down the road would have big browns and 8-10 lb steelhead. as for the crowds, they seemed easy enough to leave behind, although i was shown a place or two that make the skokomish seem like the most ethical fishery on earth
hopefully someday i can make it to the other lakes and check out those rivers too.... hopefully the weather will cooperate late this fall when i'm driving back west.
Fascinating stuff these Great Lakes. The dedication to planting these fish is serious. Any commercial or tribal fisheries on these fish? Coach
Coach, cool input as always and very good question. Since salmon and steelhead/rainbow plants are a relatively new practice for the GL and Tributaries it would make sense that there would not be the same historical fishing rights granted to the tribes. It would seem that commercial fishing would benefit by all the planting work. I look forward to those in the know from around the GL areas.
Yes, I would guess that the tribes have no inherent rights, but remember stranger things have been handed down in courts.:hmmm: But as far as general commercial fishing, it seems that region either loves the sportsman, or manybe their is a commerical fishery? that helps drive the massive plants?
You guys all need to chill! Even the ones telling others to chill!
I was resisting the urge to say that because it makes me guilty as well but it is true!
I am tired of people getting all snippy or sensitive or whiny or whatever.
You sensitive bitches are just as much of a problem as the over the top aggressive guys like Duff.
We can all post whatever we want in this thread. You have no control over it.
If you think the thread is ruined fucking leave and don't post about how you have sand in your vagina.
Duffs tangent here is no doubt interesting to me and many others from the PNW.
I am not sure whether they are the same type of tribal rights as what you all have out west, but there are some tribal rights here too. Part of the Cattaraugus (Lake Ontario trib in NY) flows through tribal land and you must purchase a license from the tribe to fish that section. I believe there are other examples, but can't think of any others.
What's really interesting is that this massive planting committment. We can say whatever we want in the PNW but the GL boys are hooking fish, and in reality in numbers we have never seen in the PNW ever in recent memory. Now I am a wild fish believer, but this is a man made run so much like our shitty hatchery efforts in the PNW man needs to keep it moving. But two GL posters so kindly sent me some great info in PMs that show there are good self sustaining runs. Interesting stuff. In fact a couple of rivers have not been planted for decades and are still kicking ass. I am going to be doing some reading and digging next week as I have a few days off. And thanks greatly to you GL vets who have sent me PMs and reading material. You guys are class anglers I appreciate your experience and knowledge. Anybody else have some more info on the planting committment or commercial fishery in the GL on either salmon, searun browns or browns or bows? Coach
You should take your own advise.
i don't recall any directed commercial fisheries (besides the huge charter boat fleet) but i would think selling the fish would be tough.
i'm no doctor but i think this might stop me from purchasing wild lake ontario chinook salmon:
You should read my post more carefully.
Topwater and others have mentioned on here or in PMs a huge charter business for these Great Lakes and tribs. Do folks in the GL eat fish they land or are those in the "know" shying away from eating these fish due to pollution levels. Can I can see a scenerio where out of towners kill, keep and take home fish to wherever and locals release them due to known pollution levels? There seems to be conflicting levels of beliefs on pollution levels.