9lb G.L steel

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by kruggy1, Apr 5, 2009.

  1. John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

    Posts: 2,129
    Olympia
    Ratings: +180 / 1
    I could be wrong but I think that the Great Lakes were planted with Salmon and Stealhead in order to combat the huge alwife and herring problem that came about due to the eirie canal. The herring and alwife were so thick that the shores would be covered in their stinking dead bodies come spawning time. The government planted a fish that would mitigate this explosion in the late 1890's. I think that the sport fishing was just added beni. Please someone feel free to correct me on this.

    From what I have heard the steelhead and salmon populations exploded and peaked in the early 1980's. Some rivers getting returns in the 100k mark. Then the herring and alwife populations dropped and since the salmon and steelhead populations have suffered. A good friend of mine owned Whitaker's fly shop on the Salmon river in New York. He said that in the 80's he could have 20-30 fish days during the boom. Now people are lucky to have 3 or 4 fish days on that river.
  2. Andrew Lawrence Active Member

    Posts: 734
    Renton, WA.
    Ratings: +100 / 0
    While not entirely related to the subject at hand, this article is somewhat related to the introduction of salmonid species to the great lakes. I’m sure that some of you have read it. For those who have not, enjoy.

    Regards,

    Andrew


    http://www.greatlakesdirectory.org/Illinois/nov. 3008
  3. Dave Fulton New Member

    Posts: 13
    Frederick, MD
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Limit is 3 p/day p/angler and you see lots of people take their limit, but I can't speak to the ratio of locals to non-locals. I don't eat them myself.

    Regards,

    Dave Fulton
  4. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    You are missing the point. PNW steelheasd do not spend their entire lives in puget sound. That is why the toxin levels in our fish are much lower. I would suggest you read further into the link I provided. The fish consumption health advisiories for all of the lake are linked there and all of the GL steelhead have an advisory on them. Also do some research on how mercury and PCB and the like get into the fish. Maybe you will understand. If not, best of luck to ya. Also, I did not "just" fish PA. I lived in pa. I have fished every freaking one of those lakes and you couldn't pay me to put one of those mercury sickles in my body. If you choose to, then fine, go ahead and have mentally disabled kids and die a slow death of Altzheimers or Parkinsons or any of the other degenerative neurological diseased associated. I won't loose any sleep over it.
  5. Copper Jon What a Jim!

    Posts: 159
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Coach,
    I'm a little late getting in here but just to give a biologist's 2 cents: your steelhead vs. rainbow question, genetically they are the same species, Oncorhynchus mykiss, in the scientific community. Steelhead are simply the anadromous life history form of rainbow trout. The term anadromous refers to migrating from the sea to freshwater to spawn, so in my opinion mykiss introduced to the Great Lakes are simply very large lake-run rainbows, although that is under the assumption that none of them make it all the way out to the Atlantic. It really is a funny situation in the first place because the GLs are so huge, they're basically freshwater mini-oceans rather than lakes.

    Mykiss have the most diverse set of life histories of any Pacific salmonid species including varying degrees of anadromy, differences in reproductive biology, and plasticity of life history between generations. Generally, you'll see them adapt to any situation and access everywhere they can migrate to. Lock some anadromous steelhead up upstream of dams (ex. Elwha) and you have a thriving "resident" rainbow trout population that never sees salt. However, they still carry the "steelhead" genetics from before the dams. When those dams come out, I have no doubts they'll start exploring downstream for foraging opportunities and some will quickly go anadromous on their own.

    Mykiss do what's best for them given any situation - if there's a dam high in a system, you get residualized "steelhead" in the tailwater behind the dam over time. Eventually less of the anadromous population goes to the ocean. Why? Because the cold water coming out of the bottom of the dam provides great temps year round and produces tons of insects for food so why endure the migration cost of venturing all the way back to the ocean.

    The line between the common names steelhead and rainbow trout sometimes just gets blurry. Take a lake in AK for example that has a stream dumping into it and an outlet stream that runs into the ocean. The big populations of salmon coming in provide tons of food, the lake provides overwinter habitat with less big predators than the ocean, and there are mykiss present. Will this system be steelhead dominated or rainbow trout dominated? They'll all be big so what do we call these fish if we don't know where they've been? Beats me. I'd love to put a bunch of tags out in a system like this and see.
  6. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    BTW turn on KCTS right now if you can.
  7. Dave Fulton New Member

    Posts: 13
    Frederick, MD
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I did and I tried to do it with an open mind, but it still comes out the same. Nevertheless, if I have misunderstood, then please accept my apologies.

    Regards,

    Dave Fulton
  8. Brett Angel Member

    Posts: 530
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    What's the show you're watching Be Jofus? Trying to find it online.
  9. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
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    It was about the effects of some of these chemicals I was mentioning on amphibs. I didn't catch the name. Sadly, They switched topics part way through. Pretty interesting though. Some of the stuff floating around in this planets water is downright freaking scary.
  10. Coach Duff Banned or Parked

    Posts: 1,272
    Kailua Hawaii
    Ratings: +6 / 0

    Been fishing for studying and chasing steelhead for over 30 years so I knew this stuff. As a born and raised Washington native, I am blessed to have been raised among some very talented steelhead biologists and especially anglers. But sincerely thanks for the post! I think I am looking for much smaller nuances or behaviors scientists and anglers have studied and observed in the GL fish in particular.
  11. shotgunner Anywhere ~ Anytime

    Posts: 481
    45th Parallel NW Michigan
    Ratings: +23 / 1
    No shit????????

    I think you missed my point. We Were discussing a diverse fishery over an enormous region, not fish advisorys. Yes there are advisorys, never denied that. I took offense at your suggestion that the entire place was one big cesspool waiting for an errant spark to ignite it. Comments like "The GLs are still a toxic waste dump, only the water doesn't catch on fire "literally" every couple of years and your skin won't peel off if you wet wade anymore" only serve to illustrate your true ignorant comprehension of the region. I have no idea how much you've seen or fished but I'm guessing it resembled an old folks cross country bus tour of the Grand Canyon.. 'Yeah, I seen all that' and so you did.. a minute portion from the Interstate through a window.

    Please save your condescending health commentary for the boys in your real home town.
  12. Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    Posts: 3,979
    Olympic Peninsula
    Ratings: +647 / 0
    When I was a kid I spent half of my life near Lake Ontario, east of Rochester NY and all the way up to the Watertown area. Back in the 1950's and well into the 1970's the lake water was so turbid that there was virtually no visibility. And it was a toxic soup too. Then the clean water act came along and changed everything. The Salmon River, a tributary of Lake Ontario, once carried the largest runs of Atlantic Salmon in the USA. That was long before industrialization and the locks at St Lawrence, the Dams etc. The fish were extirpated by overharvest. I would love to see someone put the time and effort into restablishing the native fish runs there. Of course that would mean an end to the hatchery runs of pacific salmon and rainbows. You couldnt have both.

    Right now the entire Great Lakes region is addicted to hatchery fish and the huge economy that has resulted from manufacturing those fish for sport angling. And as noted previously the fish are doing fine at establishing their own spawning territories and runs. The water quality is much better now than it was fifty years ago. But it still carries toxins from human activities and wastes. But so does Puget Sound, and there are health advisories in every single state in America, at both state and EPA levels of determination. Some say the warnings are not strict enough. The seafood industry fights this advisory system. The average citizen is unaware.

    I think that the worst thing about having artificial Steelhead runs anywhere, including here in the Pacific Northwest, is that people begin to take wild runs of fish for granted. They dont even miss them.
  13. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    Enormous region? :LMFAO: Not even close to enormous to a steelhead. In fact considering their typical range the great lakes are quite tiny. And I never said it was waiting for an errant spark to ignight it. If fact I said...
    Has the mercury trashed you reading comprehension skills as well? I have by no means done the tourist route fishing those waters, although I will admit my home waters are along the New York PA and Ohio side of Erie. I was a technology consultant who's primary focus was heavy industry in the region. I spent quite a bit of time fishing all over the great lakes, US and Canada side while I was traveling for business. I fished with the locals that I worked with. I also have family all over the region and fished with them when I couldn't find any one else to fish with. You can try and knock my credentials. Whatever. The people here i have fished with as well as people in the GL region know I know my way around a rod/reel and a steelhead . Yes the lakes look pretty and after bleaching the hell out of the water you can drink it without immediatly keeling over. Do some research 1 on the history of those lakes and 2 on the lifecycle of a steelhead. I'm trying to help you. Heavy metals DO NOT LEAVE. They do not dissapate. They do not dissappear because you stop dumping them into the water. They are in the food chain and they are there to stay. Hormones from farm and sweage runnoff are not filterable. They are in some cases de sexing the fish. I wonder what it does to the people who eat the fish? The steelhead can not run and hide in the ocean from the stuff. They are landlocked. I understand you are a homer and are very proud of your region apparently, but use some common sense man. Those lakes were all trashed over the last 200 years.
  14. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,399
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,357 / 9
    Where is the "popping some popcorn for the next round" smiles icon?
  15. Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

    Posts: 2,558
    Quesnel, BC
    Ratings: +319 / 0
    remind me never to use bolds when replying to Be_J..
  16. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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  17. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,399
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,357 / 9
    Holy shit, the water is on fire! I saw some news reports 30 or so years ago about some fires like these in the GL region...I lived in IN at the time. I'm glad all that water quality is on the improving swing.
  18. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    Yes, I did mean, the water doesn't catch on fire anymore "literally"
  19. GeorgeMcfly Great Lakes Steelhead Slayer

    Posts: 23
    Lorain, Ohio
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I also fish the great lakes region. I am kruggy1's friend. I heard about this site from him and decided to check it out but was surprised at all hostility of this post. whats wrong with great lakes steelies? I don't care if you call them a steelhead or a trout or even if you don't even call them fish. they sure are fun to catch! read um and weep! :rofl:

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  20. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,399
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,357 / 9
    Welcome, nice fish. You look familiar. The first and last fish have a strange ratio of head to body with too large a head. All the ones in the middle are damn fine fish. Keep catching them. Do you eat them too?