A Dream Come True For Some!

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by wet line, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    Posts: 4,072
    Near the Fjord
    Ratings: +533 / 0
    There is no reason to close this thread. Politics and politicians are important to our fishing resources. Let it ROLL!! Thank you. If you are not interested, then don't read anymore.
  2. Big Tuna Member

    Posts: 1,933
    Wenatchee, Washington
    Ratings: +36 / 0
    Anyone? Don't want to derail this highly productive thread, but inquiring minds want to know if the bill actually passed.
  3. Mike T Active Member

    Posts: 849
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Ratings: +54 / 1
    I would hope that we're all smart enough to have a hierarchy of importance when we we vote for our elected leaders and not just look at the R or D behind their names. For the vast majority of voters policies governing taxation, social policy, defense spending, etc are , perhaps rightly, at the top of the order.

    Until people begin to look at how the above noted policies affect their natural surroundings, or give habitat and species related issues greater importance when selecting a candidate this will continue to be a poorly performing segment of our government and get the shaft in budget negotiations and in naming the head of agencies.

    I believe neither party gives a rip about the survival of native species. So it's up to us to find a way to make them care, that's the challenge. It will take money and votes. Sportsmen are a small segment of the population of WA. Those who care about native species are an even smaller segment of the community. How do we compete with all the interests allied against us?

    Politics and political gamesmanship is a key component in the health of our fisheries and so I hope this thread remains open and the discussion remains civil.
  4. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,193
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +449 / 0
    I lived on the east coast. There is some fantastic fishing for a variety of species there. They also have trout hatcheries. I am just straight up confused by wet lines perspective. The rocky mountains are a "destination" due as much to the scenery and population density as the trout. Thre are some fantastic trout in the Catskills and adirondacks etc. There are more species to fish for in New York than one can imagine, from steelhead to muskies, smallmouth, gar, trout, carp, bass, pike. In fact, I would say the fishing is better than in Montana if you like more than just trout. This is possibly the single stupidest beginning to a thread I ave ever seen. The lack of logic and reason is astounding.

    Go Red Sox,
  5. NomDeTrout Fly Guy Eat Pie

    Posts: 472
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    when in doubt, start pointing fingers. that'll get things done...
  6. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,285
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,489 / 2
    well said sir
  7. smole Member

    Posts: 39
    Kirkland, WA
    Ratings: +9 / 0
    The status of SB 6813 can be viewed here.

    Chris, feel free to delete the link if needed.
  8. Irafly Active Member

    Posts: 3,463
    Everett, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +898 / 1
    Thanks smole.

    By the way I'm ready to join the LTAI party (Lets Talk About It), in fact I think we as a nation are riper than ever for a legitimate mainstream third party to take prominance. Maybe the TAI Talk About It party, the TIO party Talk it Out, the TLBPJ party Think Logically Before Passing Judgement, CEATOFMSTDTBCFA Party, Critically examine all the options from multiple sides to determine the best course for action.

    Come on folks lets tea party this sucker and come up with a new political party that we can take the nation by storm with. Maybe we can get Sarah to speak at one of our meetings.

    Who should be our spokesperson? Right now I like Mumbles approach the most.

  9. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

    Posts: 995
    do'n it 4 the chinookie
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I'm with Evan , just want to get another post in , I'm all about the numbers ... And as for the Bill, who's Bill ?
  10. wet line New Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Burien, WA, King.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    You've all had your fun. So let me clarify something! I said Conservative!!! That doses not reffer to any party but rather an ideal. There are conservative Dems, of which I am one, and there are liberal Reps!

    DNR, of which a lot of you are up in arms about, and include me, has a function to make money for the state with state holdings. They mangage timber holdings to make money for the schools primarily. They also manage grazing lands in eastern WA. to make money for the state. Do you see a pattern here?

    DNR is out to make money. That means that commercial interest are going to be the dictate. Our fisheries are managed by maximum sustainable harvest. WDFW has made some inroads on this in the past few years. However DNR is not going to go along with these inroads. If I were to make a wager I would lay money on comercial fishermen backing the shit out of this idea!!

    Trout in most of our lakes have been introduced and have little economic value. The question that will be asked is what is the states return for dollars spent. There is very little commercial value in stocking trout that can be proven. There is a lot of subjective proof but not real hard numbers.

    I am sure I have a different perspective from most on this forum. For 26 years I have owned a small business that I have made a living from. I have watched every time the state or local gov. get in a money bind the raising of fees and taxes. In turn this results in higher insurance and bond costs. In turn this forces a rise in my prices, or cost to consumer. This in turn results in lower sales. Most definately I belive in conservatism and I really don't give a damn about what party a person is affiliated with. I want conservatives regardless of party affiliation.

    Steelhead have very little commercial value to the state. Yes you can plug in subjective retail benefits but those are not hard numbers.

    You are all entittle to your beliefs and I will alway respect that. But I would like any of you to show me what the State of WA has done to improve the debacle in our rivers. They have ruled this state for over 20 years and the native numbers keep going down hill. This is not about parties particularly. It is about the politicians that have done nothing regardless of party affliliation. And we keep electing them by there supposed party affiliation. I don't care if they are from the Blue Mongoose party as long as they are dedicated to doing what is needed to restore what we have lost. Party affiliation, ie.. dem or rep, has little to do with it.

  11. Bob Jones Still truckless now farther away

    Very good reply, We just need some one to run this thing the way we want it and protect our resorces for wild life, fish, animals of all kinds inclludiing people. Those who are only out to make a big profit or "killing" will end up "killing" us all off. There should never be any allowed pollution of land, water, or air that is all our right to have for our life. Sorry about the Cigars guys.
  12. Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

    Posts: 3,682
    Ratings: +261 / 0
  13. LG Mix New Member

    Posts: 260
    Near the border
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    The argument that conservative politics = good fishing & hunting and liberal politics = not so good fishing & hunting is seriously flawed. That’s like saying I’ve never caught a native steelhead because my two handed rod was made in China. Cause and effect or just defective logic?
  14. wet line New Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Burien, WA, King.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Mr. Mix,

    Here is a question for YOU! Of the western states which ones would you spend the time and money for a quality hunting or fishing trip?

    Would you pick California or Washington?

    Myself I would choose Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Utah and Wyoning in that order. Oregon is up there and British Columbia would be at the top of the list for alot of things. All of these are fairly conservative. Not politically conservative, ie, Republican, but conservative in their actions regarding wildlife. I did not bring up party affiliation, that was brought in by another. I brought in conservatism. That for your little bitty mind is a derivative of conservation!! The act of conserving. It has nothing to do with a political party proffesions which are generally a bunch of hot air that ignorant people belive.

    This state operates under the law of maximum sustainable harvest. does that sound very conservative to you?

  15. NomDeTrout Fly Guy Eat Pie

    Posts: 472
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    " The more liberal the state the poorer the fishing and hunting, California and Washington for example and the entire east coast. Yes the Dems really care about wildlife and the environment. Just look where they have run government for any significant period of time.

    Good fishing all. You elected these liberal Dems and now we get to pay for it!!"

    i don't know wet line...looks a bit like you called out party affiliation there.
  16. wet line New Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Burien, WA, King.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    By the way I don't see any lists of all the great things the state has done in the last 20 years or so to improve our anandromous fish conditions.

    Lets see, the state has reduced funding for WDFW, reducing critical personal.
    Increased the allowable by catch on the lower Columbia.
    Has continued to support maximum sustainable harvest.
    Has met Federal mandates only because the Tribes threatend to take them to court. Replacing minimal culverts with larger culverts under roads to improve fish passage.
    The Gov. decided she needs her own personal advisor, kind of going around the board.

    So where is your list of all the good things that Olympia has done? I will give you one, they finally got rid of Curt Smitch!

    Come on you all took your shots so lets see what you have to say to back up your statements that basically implied all is well, warm and fuzzy with the administration for the last 20 plus years.
    It has to be long and deep. After all these are, and this is political, they are Democrats who care to their non-existent souls about conservation or our resources. Their actions are so plain and evident.

  17. gearhead Active Member

    Posts: 661
    Renton, wa
    Ratings: +45 / 0
    i bet the rules makers are Swingers
  18. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,286
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,387 / 0
    Wet Line,

    The status of WA's fish and wildlife has little to do with political party affiliation and not that much to do with conservative or liberal politics. The over-riding reason for the status of our fish and wildlife resources is WA state population growth. This state last had fairly consistently harvestable numbers of wild salmon and steelhead with the human population was around 2.6 million. At the present 6.5 or so million, and growing rapidly, most wild stocks of salmon and steelhead don't stand a chance.

    WA state generally has a solid majority when it comes to environmental protection, including fish and wildlife. The Democrats aren't really that great at it, but they at least are generally willing to pass laws for environmental protection. The Republicans, following the party line of less government and lower taxes, oppose such legislation, almost to the man, or woman, as the case may be. I think that if Republicans supported environmental protection with more than vague lip service, more of them would be elected. But they don't. So they aren't. Except in eastern WA, where opposition to government regulation over-rides any concerns for the environment, generally speaking.

    The little time I've spent in the halls of the Legislature make it very clear that the political value of fish and wildlife hovers just above zero. Daily, they have bigger fish to fry, pun intended.

  19. Richard Torres Active Member

    Posts: 1,346
    Mill Creek
    Ratings: +76 / 0
    Here here! iagree
    If you don't like it, then go tie some flies!
  20. DimeBrite MA-9 Beach Stalker

    Posts: 811
    Marine Area 9
    Ratings: +258 / 0
    It's very true that other states do a better job at managing fish and wildlife than Washington. During my time in Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado I saw far better management of fish stocks and waaaaay better enforcement. A big part of that is due to the $$ from fishing and hunting licences going directly into fish and wildlife programs and enforcement (not the general fund of that state's budget). However, it is easier to protect trout in their limited river and lake habitat versus anadramous steelhead and salmon, which travel thousands of miles into international waters and have a much more challenging life cycle. Things in Washington will never improve until the state's fish and game resources are seen as a much greater economic opportunity for the "sporting" aspect than it is for the commercial harvest aspect. Other states have been far quicker to recognize the $$ to be made by a well managed resource, but Washington still doesn't get it. I honestly think that signing up with organizations like CCA will help tip the balance of political power in Washington toward managing for conservation and push back against entrenched commericial fishing interests and their crony state politicians (many of whom are indeed Democrats, blue dog or otherwise).