A fantastic cast

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by shockedalaskan, Oct 6, 2002.

  1. shockedalaskan

    shockedalaskan New Member

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    I was fishing in downtown Fall city today, Sunday, under the bridge. I walked over to the slow moving water, upstream and watched a fellow flyfisherman casting from the center of the river.

    I don't know who you are but you have the best casting method I have ever seen.

    You had more line than I can handle and the way you strung the line across the water thus presenting the fly "all alone" was magical.

    Don't worry, I have a girlfriend so don't get the idea, but your casting was supurb. :THUMBSUP

    I was the guy in the tree watching you.


    Yours,

    Phil

    P.S. I caught nothing but a 4 inch branch. I caught it on a blood sucking leech. :REALLYMAD
     
  2. Peter Pancho

    Peter Pancho Active Member

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    It was Brad Pitt doing the Shadow Casting thingy! Hehe...

    "Follow Me and I will make you fishers of Men"
    Matthew 4:19
     
  3. shockedalaskan

    shockedalaskan New Member

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    I thought I was good, I mean I really did. But this guy was slow pulling and he must of had 40 feet of line and when he blew on the water the line laid down ending on the fly.

    It was cool.

    Im upset though, even the bait chuckers don't catch anything at all. I guess I have the elusive steelhead to look forward to at the end of this month huh!:DEVIL


    Yours,

    Phil
     
  4. Peter Pancho

    Peter Pancho Active Member

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    Sounds like the guy was double-hauling his line. 40' is typical for this type of casting. Once you get your double haul down, you can cast as far as 75-80 feet with a 9' 5wt!
    Watching a person double-hauling is like watching someone doing Tai-Chi; its mezmorizing! Yesterday on the Cowlitz, I watched this spey caster roll cast at least 100'!!! It was awesome! I don't see how anyone can cast 100' with a sink-tip, I found it impossible!

    "Follow Me and I will make you fishers of Men"
    Matthew 4:19
     
  5. shockedalaskan

    shockedalaskan New Member

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    I've guided in Alaska, the Yukon, and B.C. for most of my first 30 years on this planet and I have never seen line delivered to the water like that. :EEK

    I thought I knew everything (that's why I left home). I did'nt know ****.:BLUSH

    He had it down so good he was not even looking.:AA

    If nothing else, I will make every effort to learn to someday fish on the same river with this guy.


    Phil
     
  6. shockedalaskan

    shockedalaskan New Member

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    I think I am going to bite my pride and take some classes from Orvis.


    Yours,

    phil :ANGRY
     
  7. ceviche

    ceviche Active Member

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    Hold on now! Resorting to Orvis isn't necessary. Double hauling really isn't that difficult. I've never taken a lesson and can do it okay--though certainly not "into my backing" kind of casts. I'm pretty certain I can clear over 50', though. If you poke around the web long enough, you will find all the necessary information. I actually accidentally figured out some of the basic principles in a moment of fitful rage--go figure.

    What it all comes down to is pulling down with your line hand (and returning it back to its starting point) the moment you begin breaking your wrist at the end of your arm stroke. Your line hand kind of does this "jack & return, shoot line" thing. Your line hand can feel the fly line wanting to take off with the additional line speed generated. Let slip some line--it'll become apparent how much line you can get away with shooting. Pretend you are angry at the wind blowing in your face when you haul. It might help you like it helped me. And be sure you have lots of slack lying about your feet or in a stripping basket for your casting to deliver. Otherwise, you will be startled by your flyline coming up short and ripping a short length out of your reel. Not good. Do expect that you will cast at least half of the line in your reel--if not more.

    With more line in the air, you will have to extend the distance of your arm stroke while false casting and shooting more line. You may even have to slow down your arm stroke a little to find your new rhythm. There will, however, come a point when you will not be able to keep aloft all that line you have generated up in the air. Before that happens, you'd best have shot out what line your line speed can carry and finish your cast. I find that, usually, I need only make two or three false casts using the double haul to make my distance.

    One last note. The tightness of your loops will absolutely affect your line speed and overall distance of your line-shot casts. Here, it is a good thing to use false casting to do mid-air corrections of your loop before sending off your last cast. Wind resistance is your enemy. A big loop is likened to a super tanker bow plowing through water. A small loop is likened to the bow of a high-speed USCG pursuit cutter. The former is pushing a lot of water before it, while the latter is doing a better job sneaking between the molecules. Simply: Tight loops cut the wind better.

    From here, just practice a lot until you get into the rhythm of the casting. The most efficient casting is very rhythmic and double hauling will demand a new rhythm. Once you find it, you will be having a very good time finding you don't need to false cast as much as you used to. This will also translate into less arm fatigue.

    I hope I managed to more clarify than obfuscate. Enjoy!
     
  8. troutman101

    troutman101 Member

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    I might suggest taking fly casting at a slow pace. Double hauling can be worthless if you cant cast accurately yet. Although timing a double haul is relatively easy, distance is much much much less important than accuracy. A good book to read is Mel Kreuger's fly casting book. He teaches the dynamics of fly casting which can help you visualize the effects that each motion can have on a cast.

    Although I haul on almost every cast, I don't haul for distance as much as just controling each cast. The faster my line moves, the easier it is to cut through wind and pick my distance for presentation.

    Here is a good way to check if you are ready for double hauling:

    1.Go get your dog's frizbee.
    2.Find a field 100' in length that is flat with no obstructions. (trees)
    3.Place the frizbee at one end of the field then go stand in the center of the field.
    4.Try and cast to the frizbee. Count each time you make a delivery cast.
    5.Count each time you can land your fly in the frizbee.

    If your ratio is 50 percent or more, you are ready. Otherwise, keep casting for practice rather than fishing.

    (My opinion here:) I see casting and fishing as two different skills. This would explain the difference between a good caster and a good fisherman. You don't need to be a good caster to be a good fisherman and vise versa. This would explain why guys working at a flyshop can cast so well. They practice every day with different lines and rods.

    Just my opinion, nothing else.
     
  9. wyo_guy

    wyo_guy New Member

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    I just rented a video by Scientific Anglers titled "Advanced Casting techniques with Doug Swisher" and found it to be very informative. Among double-haul casting, the video covers reach casting, curve casting, roll casting, and combinations of these casts. Doug also demonstrates handy line mending, feeding, and stripping techniques. Of course most of these methods are best for dry-fly trout fishing, but they can certainly be of use during various conditions encountered on any rivers fishing under varying conditions.

    Tim
     
  10. Rob Blomquist

    Rob Blomquist Formerly Tight Loops

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    Don't discount the roll cast as a cast for only trout fishermen. I use it all the time to pick sink tips off the water, and start my back cast. I got taught this back when I was in high school, and I was amazed to find out that this was worthy of an article in Saltwater Fly Fisherman. Maybe its the lack of folks learning this technique that caused for the creation of integrated running lines and shooting heads.

    I have no idea how one would get a 28 foot shooting head off the water without this technique, and if the head is very fast sinking, it can take 2 in succession. It is also excellent with my Airflo Multitip with the type 6 tip on it or with any full sinking line.

    Basically, retrieve the line to a comfortable casting length, I like about 30-40 feet out. Then sweep the rod back for the roll cast, roll cast the line out, and as it rises off the water, bring it back into a back cast.
    ---------
    Genetic pollution damages wild
    stocks, bonk those Hatchery Zombies!
     
  11. shockedalaskan

    shockedalaskan New Member

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    I don't think I am ready. Since I have moved into Washington State I mostly use a ultra light and it is hard for me to get any distance out of it other than maybe 40 feet.

    To me learning to flyfish like that would be awsome because it's just another thing to make the fly fishing ecperience interesting.

    I am off to Kauffmans to get this new rod they have, which will be long enough for me to get that cast, in the event that I ever learn.

    I will grab that video and the book.


    Yours,

    phil :HMMM
     
  12. Madison

    Madison New Member

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    I Agree! Swisher's video is very informative. Where to you rent it? I have not seen it in about five years and it would be a great refresher.
     
  13. Surf_Candy

    Surf_Candy Member

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    don't forget the water haul - I've been using it this year in the salt - I typically strip in to the end of my 15' sink tip just in case there are some followers, make a small 30 foot cast and let it land, water haul it into a back cast. I then shoot line on the back cast so by the time you are coming forward you have 40-45 feet of line out and can shoot it 70-80 feet (well, at least I averge 60 plus, with the occasional 80 plus footer if I time my forward cast and single haul correctly :BIGSMILE )

    The Doug Swisher Micorsecond wrist is interesting but did not make sense to me until I read Lefty and Ed jaworowski enough times to get it into my head that the forward cast is most effective when you slowly accelerate - not over muscling it....

    I also found that if I back out of the water to just above knee level instead of crotch level, I can cast much better.

    My 2 cents.

    Jim
     
  14. wyo_guy

    wyo_guy New Member

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    I rented it at the Avid Angler in Lake Forest Park. I still have it and will probably return it tomorrow.

    Tim
     
  15. Jim

    Jim New Member

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    The best caster I have seen was on the S. Fork of the Flathead. She was about 20 years old and was casting a 5wt. about as far as you can throw one. That was many years ago and proved the point that you don't need strength to have a long cast. Just got back from AK and was tossing an 8wt. with type 6 sinking with a Clouser. When I got to the "chuck and duck" part of the day, I think "relax" and let the rod do what it was designed to do. I think a lot of women (including my daughters) are good casters because they never try to make up for poor technique with muscle like most men do.
     
  16. Piscator

    Piscator New Member

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    I think all of you reading this should spend more time watching videos and reading books. I'm sure if you look around you will find many good sources of information to help you better youselves a flyfishers. Personally, I think spending time on the water is way over rated. If you want to get better just read more. Besides, you don't have to worry about getting cold, falling in, or not catching fish or anything. Maybe someday I will see some of you out on a river or somewhere, but until then I will just have to get used to fishin' alone.

    Fish on!
    Piscator :HAPPY
     
  17. shockedalaskan

    shockedalaskan New Member

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    Piscator,

    A native of the yukon and alaska I am, and I still make time to fish 3 times a week.

    Do I catch anything here? Hell no! :REALLYMAD

    I just started this line because I want to learn how to move that much line. I can't seem to keep over 40 feet. I'm embarrassed because I call myself a guide.

    Regardless, I am hitting Kaufmann's tommorrow to get a larger rod and a few videos. Maybe your right, I need to read more.

    p :HMMM
     
  18. Jim

    Jim New Member

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    Gee - I guess I'd better cancel those trips to Prince of Wales, Sitka, and the Deschutes. Not counting fishing the Naches, the Yakima, and the various potholes. Now I know what I'm doing wrong - I'm not watching enough videos.
     
  19. wheelbarrow

    wheelbarrow New Member

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    More important than watching videos or reading books is having someone watch you cast. Preferably someone who knows a lot about casting. You may think you're doing what you learned in a book, but even though it feels like you are, you're not. Video taping yourself is also useful, but the delay between casting and watching is somewhat of a hinderance. Having someone say "You're not drifting enough on the back-cast" or "haul a split second later", and then trying it, is the best way to improve and learn.

    Casting a whole 6wt floating line requires _much_ less strength than you think. It's 95% technique and smoothness. Let the rod do the work. Oh yeah, and luck is involved, too (in my opinion). :)

    Also, bear in mind that different rods need to be cast differently for maximum distance, but pretty much all decent rods will throw an entire line in well practiced hands. A Sage XP is going to require a certain stroke because it doesn't bend very far into the blank. A Loomis GLX will bend progressively down to the butt and lend more of its own power to the cast. You can affect how a rod casts, to a certain extent, by using a different line weight.

    Here's a quick tip that you can try that will improve distance casting (assuming you don't do this already), with or without hauling: Aim your backcast up -- imagine you're trying to backcast at an upward angle (maybe 45 degrees up from horizontal). This way, by the time the line has straightened (and you have to wait until it's straight), it will fall to the horizontal position. I think that, with a lot of line in the air, we rush the forward cast because we don't want the line to hit the water/ground behind us. If you aim up a little, you can start the forward cast with a perfectly straightened, horizontal line.

    Note that even if you try to backcast at a 45 degree angle, it won't likely happen. Maybe you'll get 20 degrees. In reality, you don't need it elevated that much. :pROFESSOR
     
  20. Luv2Spey

    Luv2Spey Member

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    I agree with Tight Loops, consider the roll-cast. The roll cast is under appreciated and under utilized by single-handers.

    However, one of the problems with using a roll-cast effectively has to do with changing direction. For example, at the end of a swing, your line extends straight downstream. To cast the line from that position to a position that where it is down and across from you will require a change of direction. Changing directions and roll-casting are not good friends.

    Effectively changing directions while roll-casting is even more problematic if you are casting into an upstream or a downstream wind. If the wind is downstream, the wind acts to collapse the loop robbing you of the energy needed to power the cast. If the wind is upstream, when you "turn" to face your target line, the wind can (and often will) slam the fly into your backside.

    My recommendation? Learn to spey cast with your single-hander. The spey cast is little more than a roll-cast that has been modified to allow for changing directions for either upstream (single-spey) and downstream (double-spey, spiral) winds.

    When I fish my single-hander 8 wt with a sinktip, I use these techniques exclusively. False casting those heavy lines in order to change direction is hard-work and, more importantly, is time that my fly is not in the water. Use a spey cast to change your direction and then a single false cast to get your distance.

    Cheers,

    Michael
     

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