NFR A Guardian Teacher Law

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Brad Soliday, Dec 18, 2012.

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  1. SteveA Gnu to the board

    Posts: 273
    Western WA
    Ratings: +28 / 0
    If the american version of freedom results in arming our teachers and turning our schools into fortresses I think I might consider leaving.
    Be Jofus G likes this.
  2. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    I'll guarentee my kids won't step foot in a school with armed teachers.
  3. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,286
    Your City ,State
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    When I was in elementary and high school, a fair number of my teachers were WWII veterans. I wouldn't have had a problem with them carrying weapons at school. Then again, it was also OK to bring shotguns (unloaded) on the school bus for after-school bird hunting. Shotguns and ammo were left in the principal's office.

    Sg
  4. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    When I was in high school, Someone peleted the French teacher in the back of the head with spit balls daily. During the last quarter of the school year, the teacher finally caught him, snapped, and threw him through a plate glass window. That was in the 80's. It's worse now. Teachers have it a lot tougher than they did back in the day man. Anyone who has the stones to be a teacher these days should be anointed as a saint....An unarmed saint.
  5. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,286
    Your City ,State
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    Natural and logical consequences. I don't see a problem. Maybe because teachers have it tougher these days is another reason to be armed; not wanting to get off topic.
  6. Lugan Joe Streamer

    Posts: 2,333
    Beautiful View, WA
    Ratings: +677 / 2
    Be, you might have a very good point. You make me remember a few times in my childhood when teachers blew up at kids (worst one was when my 7th grade science teacher picked a kid up while he was sitting in his little desk and threw him though the doorway and across the hall, smashing into the bank of lockers there). Maybe we keep teachers teaching, and let the armed security be handled by specialists. Gonna be expensive though.

    If we had cops or other armed protection at every school, would that just shift madmen to other soft targets like movie theaters, restaurants, buses, churches, etc? Don't get me wrong - there is good in eliminating schools from the soft target list, but we need to be aware of the unintended consequences.
  7. gearhead Active Member

    Posts: 661
    Renton, wa
    Ratings: +45 / 0
    How do you stop a shooter, once he is already at your school??????

    Seems nobody wants to answer this question.

    Its one of those stories, where the sheep are preyed upon by the wolf. so a sheepdog arrives to watch over the sheep, but despite the sheepdogs ability and willingness to standup to the wolf, and stop the wolf, the sheep always fear and distrust the sheepdog, because the sheepdog looks like the wolf, and can do as much damage as the wolf.
  8. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    lol. i've been saying for years that there is a market for bionic, genetically engineered weiner dogs. One minute they look ilke a ballpark frank getting carried off by ants next thing you know they're kicking some wolf ass Steve Austin style. No ones afraid of weiner dogs. It's the perfect cover. :D
  9. codswallower Member

    Posts: 80
    seattle wa
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Nobody is serious about banning all guns. Not even ******* liberals.

    But many people don't see a legitimate reason that anyone needs to possess high powered assault weapons that are capable of firing repeatably without reloading.

    Outside of the military, why does anyone need one of these?

    They just seems to make it too easy to kill a lot of people.

    Constitutional rights are not absolute. For example the 1st amendment right to free speech doesn't protect statements that provoke violence or incite illegal action.

    Can't we find the same kind of middle ground for gun possession?
  10. Don Freeman Freeman

    Posts: 1,216
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +177 / 0
    What a good idea, make teachers into bodyguards with a two day class. I spent three years in the marines, 13 months in heavy combat that featured lots of small arms fire. These kids were given a hell of a lot more training than you're talking about here, and maybe half can do what's expected of them the first couple of times.

    I have a reality gram and a question for all you Dirty Harry clones
    1. Paper targets don't make your hands shake. Loud noises and an armed enemy do.
    2. So how's that geography teacher going to feel about things after taking out a couple of students getting snapped in?
    Chris Johnson, SteveA and Be Jofus G like this.
  11. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,123
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +773 / 0
    I know one former member of SEAL Team 6 who'd be happy to advise on the process of changing, as Ed suggests, a school into a hard target. It's not difficult. And I've not met many cops who could hit their own asses in a snowstorm with their service weapons. A few, yes, but certainly not a majority. You want to stop this violence, stop the whack-jobs. Lock these anti-social bastards up. Hell, help battle global warming-hang `em on national TV.

    And no, Codswallorer, there IS no middle ground on gun possession because there's no reasonableness on the side of the banners. Hell, even my fucking biathlon rifle's considered an "assault weapon" in California. It has easily-detachable mags and a pistol-grip stock and carries-OMG!!!-twenty rounds of .22 target ammo! There is NO reasonableness involved here. Now, if a discussion were actually serious, the first paragraph would contain something about doing away with the HIPPA horseshit regarding mental health issues.
    Be Jofus G likes this.
  12. Jeff Sawyer New to Washington...

    Posts: 403
    Tacoma WA
    Ratings: +174 / 0
    You might be very disciplined and very conscientious and you might be able to carry in a class room without incident. If every teacher who carries does everything perfectly, 100% of the time you might be right, accidents might be unlikely. However, if we lived in a perfect world there would be no need to carry anywhere much less in the school. Stating that accidents would be extremely unlikely sounds like wishful thinking to me. I respect and admire teachers; I think they have one of the hardest and most under appreciated jobs imaginable. I could not do what they do on a daily basis. But if you’re in a room with 30 or more kids demanding your attention constantly, if you’re mortal, you’ll occasionally be distracted. And one distracted adult, a room full of kids, and a loaded weapon sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

    You seem like you given this alot of though, I know you probably have thought about the policies and procedures that would need to be in place for this to work. But how many of your co-workers follow policies and procedures 100% of the time, none of mine do (myself included). I look back on all my teachers, and those of my daughters. Alot of them were great teachers, but I remember exactly 1 that I would have trusted with a gun around my kids.

    I'm a gun owner myself, I believe in the right for law abiding citizens to bear arms; I just don't think this is the best answer. There are ways to make our schools more secure without bring guns into the classroom. And you're right some of them cost more than others, but I for one I'm willing to pay a little more in taxes if we use it to secure our schools.



  13. seasel New Member

    Posts: 25
    Vancouver
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    "You want to stop this violence, stop the whack-jobs. Lock these anti-social bastards up."

    Is it antisocial to bill yourself as "The meanest S.O.B in the valley"?
  14. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,123
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +773 / 0
    I'm as antisocial as any other SEAL Team member (we have two here, one from Team 6 and me, from Team 1), and still fully capable of taking out a target at 1207 yards, or "up close & personal". Mean in this context means I don't aim for center mass. And living in a tourist town, I don't like the fucking tourists-no place left to park!
  15. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,273
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,236 / 9
    Given the choice of home schooling, soft target schooling or hard target schooling, I know which I prefer.

    Schools are gun free zones, kids have little control of where and if they go. Someone has to look out after them.

    One armed person in a school has another name than school resource officer...first target. That solution is a bad bandaid at best. A multilayered approach should encompass many elements that should mitigate the risk.
  16. seasel New Member

    Posts: 25
    Vancouver
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    "One armed person in a school has another name than school resource officer...first target. That solution is a bad bandaid at best."

    I disagree. Large high schools have a community the size of a small town, and their assigned officers are useful parts of their community, just as officers are useful parts of any community. They do much, much more than serve as first targets, including building productive, inspiring relationships with some students.

    In addition, if an attacker were to focus on taking out a school resource officer, that would lead others to call 911 and would get help onsite sooner.
  17. fifafu Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    Most of these shooters kill themselves upon arrival of the first gun to oppose them because they don't want to be shot and survive. They know the gravity of the actions and don't want to chance taking a non fatal bullet.



    If you decide to arm guards or teachers it would be safer not announce who would have the gun in a school. In other words announce the presence guns without exposing who has them but declaring anywhere in this country a "gun free zone" invites these shootings.
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  18. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,273
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,236 / 9
    Seasel, you missed my point. I respect the community building a school resource officer adds. When alone against a determined assailant you have this solo person to prevent the assault. This is a single point of failure system, unacceptable. There must be other things put into place.
  19. seasel New Member

    Posts: 25
    Vancouver
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    No, I didn't miss your point. We already have a "multi-layered approach" and "other things put in place."

    What exactly do you want?
  20. dfl Active Member

    Posts: 310
    Sequim WA
    Ratings: +130 / 0
    There is one school district in rural Texas (20 minutes from the nearest police station) that has been training and arming teachers and administrators for several years with none of the feared negative consequences occurring. Don't know the districts name but the superintendent was interview on NPR recently. For them it is a practical solution to the question of school security.
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