A new Rant

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Smooth, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. Smooth Guest

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    Who here is sick of paying to recreate on Public land?
    Well, I for one. This "NW Recreation Pass" is a thinly disguised attempt to numb us to Privatization of Public Land.

    Private companies are taking profit from user fees (tax revenues).
    Our tax dollars put in the infastructure (roads, toilets, trails, parking, etc.) and then someone like Thousand Trails comes along and reaps profit from collecting the fees. (they call it "managment").

    We have already paid taxes to maintain and manage the Public Commons.

    What is next? Swingset fees at the City Park? Disney Corporation managing your local playground and charging you to be on it? OOPS...too late. Disney is already managing vast tracts of Public land and taking profit at your expense.

    Check out :

    There is tons of documentation outlining how members of the ARC are taking over public land and charging you to hike, walk, look at the views, etc, etc.

    Thousand Trails manages the most popular (did you think they would pick an unprofitable place to start?) campgrounds in the state of Washington...Icicle Canyon campgrounds near Leavenworth.
    You're not paying the Forest Service anymore...

    Refuse to pay user fees on Federal Public Land, you are an owner, not a customer.
  2. Gary Thompson dirty dog

    Posts: 3,891
    East Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +131 / 0
    Here, Here
    No more public land fees.
    Unlock all the closed roads and closed campgrounds.
    We pay enough in taxes.
    And by God when the outhouse gets full dig another, and when there's garbage, picked it up, when a road get washed out the loggers can put in a new one if they want to log some more. That's how it used to be done.
    We are Americans and we can take care of ourselves.
    We don't need a Forest Services or BLM. It's public land and the public can take care of the public land.
  3. Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

    Posts: 2,141
    Twin Bridges, MT
    Ratings: +19 / 0
  4. sharpshooter223 Member

    Posts: 486
    richland/pullman, wa
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    although glass beer bottles and aluminum beer bottles once came from the ground, i just dont think they count as part of nature anymore. seeing as partiers go somewhere free, i think ill still pay to be on untainted land.
  5. Smooth Guest

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    I hear ya, but do you think the jerks leaving trash are going to pay?
    If they have that little respect for the land, I doubt they would pay anyway.

    You should not have to pay extra to create areas of land that is managed properly...the funding for Federal land managment historically came from the General Fund and it was adequate for Federal land managers to do their job well.

    Lobbying by the ARC has succesfully reduced funding appropriation for land managment. Then user fees were put in place to get you used to paying extra. Now the fees go largely to private concerns or it is robbed for other uses by our fine Congress.
  6. Richard Olmstead BigDog

    Posts: 2,494
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +792 / 0
    I'm with you on this one. If the government is going to charge users fees based on impact, that's fine. As soon as they come up with appropriately scaled fees for recreational users (you and me) and logging companies, public lands grazing, mineral development, etc., then I'll be happy to pay my share. In that case, however, either the recreational user fees will be so infinitismally small that I won't have much to complain about (a few pennies per decade ought to be about right), or the logging/grazing/mining fees so huge that they will support public lands management in the style they deserve.

    Since campground management was brought up, I'll make one other point. I've been a user of public lands for camping for several decades. The private management of campgrounds began in the 80's (under a Reagan-era government-bad, private enterprise-good philosophy). The number of small public campgrounds declined dramatically, as many of the nice small out of the way campgrounds were shut down, because they were inefficient to manage for profit, and the remaining large campgrounds became filthy, crowded, poorly managed affairs with dramatically higher fees than used to be charged (if there was any fee before). The difference was that the land management agency (e.g., USFS) established minimum standards for maintenance and the contractors pushed the lower limits of those standards as far as they could push them to extract the maximum profit from their contracts. Previously, the government agency staff were proud of 'their' campgrounds and went out of their way to keep them up; fee-paying often was on the honor system. Their replacement contract staff primarily became revenue collectors, who were more concerned with extracting fees than with having pride in the facility they managed.

    Was that an adequate contribution to your rant, Smooth?

  7. Smooth Guest

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    Not quite a co-rant, but well put!
  8. Big Tuna Member

    Posts: 1,965
    Wenatchee, Washington
    Ratings: +44 / 0
    Y'all who feel the need to be constantly ranting publicly might consider therapy. Life is full of ups and downs, so get used to it. If you spent as much time fishing as you do bitchin' about various and sundry stuff, you might feel better.
  9. Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

    Posts: 3,764
    Ratings: +452 / 1
    Sounds like a rant against ranting?

    Go fishing? Novel idea, Tuna...counting the days.
  10. Jon Borcherding New Member

    Posts: 535
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Ah yes, the Meta-Rant, strewn about the lanscape like glittering ornaments on the semantic minefield where we try to define the subtle differences between debate, discussion, and a pissing contest. :clown:

  11. Smooth Guest

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    Nice Rant Big Tuna!!!

    Thanks for your comment...it illustrates perfectly how some folks would rather roll over and accept what ever bone (or new, regressive tax) they are tossed. They will just accept what ever happens...Dictators, Facists and Big Business like that type of citizen, it makes it easier for them to futher their agenda.

    For the record...I back up everything I say with action, I dont just Pontificate. I have been fighting for non-fee access to Public Land for 10 years. I fight so families still have an inexpensive place to recreate. It is not required by the Constitution that everything generates a profit for someone...

    I respect the individual who fights for what they believe in, whether I agree or not. Too many things have been slipped by through Congress (earmarks, to name a whole classification), without debate, and now we are stuck with it. Right or wrong, but nobody voiced opposition.

    Thank God I am not the only person who feels this way. I fear the day the voice of opposition is silenced.
  12. dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    Posts: 4,103
    Near the Fjord
    Ratings: +569 / 0
    I'm pretty much with you Smooth. I have NOT been purchasing the Forest Pass for the last several years. I don't believe in privatizing our public lands and putting forest workers and forest rangers "out of jobs". We don't need the private corporate sector to run our pubic institutions. When they do the wages drop, the company running the business (vendor) gets rich, and the quality of care drops on some of these forest camps and trails. I think a lot of prisons are run by "private" companies as well, but that's another story. And to add or change the subject with another rant is (but don't misunderstand me) is VOLUNTEERS. I like volunteers to a point, but I never forgot while visiting Yellowstone about 15 years ago and listening to a park ranger give a very good informative nature talk. Afterward, he was talking with a few of us telling how alot of ranger naturalists were losing their jobs relative to "volunteers" taking their place. Every since that time, I have seen volunteerism explode. I wonder how many people have been put out of jobs. Don't get me wrong, I believe volunteers do tremendous good. It sometimes becomes a fine line. Sorry, a little bit off the subject. Maybe another rant!
  13. Snake tryin' not to get too comfortable

    Posts: 621
    between the mountains and the sound
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    The privatization of public recreation for corporate profit ain't nothing, compared to the privatization of war through the use of mercenaries, err, I mean, private security contractors.

    But I digress. I'm with you 100%, Smooth. I park 1/4 mile from the trailheads and hike in for free, and refuse to buy a NW Forest Pass. It's akin to double taxation to enjoy the PUBLIC lands that we've already paid for, and have to pay again to use them.
  14. ajimene New Member

    Posts: 6
    Rio Rancho, nm
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Bravo! I've seen trickling fees creep turn into a torrent of all out money grab by the almighty state. Seldom do I see where all the money goes and nary a wildlife officer do I see on the beat.

    As a hunter and fisherman, I'm also sick and tired of being targeted for special access fees, while others party down in the forest leaving beer bottles and sodden diapers.

    I don't know where it will all end but it seems hunting and fishing will be a distant memory for the common man.
  15. Salmon Chaser Wannabe Spey God

    Posts: 161
    East Coast Salmon Rivers
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Tuna, I disagree with ya lad!!! A "rant" is someone who is pissed off enough about something that is wrong to actually do something about it!! I think Salar and Mykiss and Mother Earth need alot more ranters!!
    This topic doesn't seem like "sundry stuff'
    Salmon Chaser
  16. David Dalan 69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E

    Posts: 1,997
    Walla Walla, WA
    Ratings: +783 / 0
    I'm with smooth. Take a billion or two from someting else (one less B2?) and give it to the USFS (or Parks, or whomever) to manage the campgrounds. Let the staff who take pride in quality work (without financial motive) make them "the best they can be."

    Good rant.
  17. Smooth Guest

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    Thanks for all the comments!!!!!!!!
    Just to get this back where people can see it:


    This is a great website with tons of information on how your Government is selling off Public land or turning it over to private companies for their profit.
    It is also a great source of information for folks willing to spend a wee bit of time fighting privatization.
    Thanks and Good luck!