A Sign of Good Fishing

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by miyawaki, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Shellfish poaching is a serious problem for tideland owners/leasers. Apparently, there is a big black market in illegally harvested shellfish.
     
  2. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    I agree with you in that that isn't right. I haven't encountered that problem, but I haven't had to search for new beaches to fish along the Canal or in the Sound lately. I know of several spots with public access that I can check out. Or launch from. Kayak does not require a boat ramp. Just throw it in off the beach. Any public beach where you can lug it down to launch. Usually, no fees. I have annual $30 Discovery Pass, so I can throw in at waterfront state parks for free, such as Potlatch. I try to learn the locations of all the free launch sites for waters that I fish in.
     
  3. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

    Sorry to hear that.
    But that problem doesn't address the issue of legally accessible tidelands
    by people who aren't poaching, or dealing in shellfish, or being rude, or screwing with homeowners docks or lawns or whatever. Again, I think the soft approach is the best. However, what is right..............is right.
     
  4. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

    Yes.....which is why I'm buying a small kayak this weekend.
    Good point!!!!
     
  5. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Bradley, I agree that you are right in your statement that tideland ownership in Puget Sound can be a convoluted mess for the general public to figure out. So I'd just take the "practical approach" and maybe try to fish a good looking beach that might be private. This kind of thing is highly "situational." If I thought that I could pull it off, or at least explain my way out of it if confronted, I might just go for it.

    Maybe someday I'll even beach my yak on some private strip of beach under some forested high clay bank when there's no one around, and step out and make a few casts. Or step out in the shallows with my yak leashed to me and make some casts. I dunno. I But if you or I decide to go for it, then by being respectful and discreet, we are more likely to pull it off.
    How long does it take to make a few casts, before you jump back in the yak and paddle on? The real danger would be in hooking a good fish, and thus giving the property owner time to take action!:eek:
     
  6. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

    I'm good with that.
    Let's go!!!!!
     
  7. daveypetey

    daveypetey Active Member

    Is there not an easy way to look up property lines online here in Washington State? It seems like either a public or private website would have something on this. Anyone know?

    Edit: are the zillow.com lines accurate at all?
     
  8. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

    Maybe; but then what?
    How much technology would be involved in tracking/plotting/ geo-orienteering each fifty foot wide plot of tide land? Wow.
     
  9. daveypetey

    daveypetey Active Member

    I can't imagine it would be that big of an undertaking really, as all public records are slowly becoming e-records. And likely very helpful for society at large. Of course no one should throw away the deed to their house anytime soon. :)
     
  10. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

    Tech wise, I'm sure you're right.
    I'll just mount my ipad / google maps device to the cockpit, orient my kayak to the beach at hand, and spend more time being lewis&clark than fishing. And keep my attorney on speed dial. Not a big deal at all.
     
  11. sashjo

    sashjo Member

    The sign means: The five figure property taxes that I pay do not provide for the collection and removal of public trash from my private property. The sign tells me nothing about the fishing.
     
  12. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

    Thats not the issue at hand. Do you or do you not retain the access rights to the tidelands below mean high tide? If not, then your taxes aren't the issue. Right?
     
  13. Rich Schager

    Rich Schager You should have been here yesterday...

    AMEN !
     
  14. Rich Schager

    Rich Schager You should have been here yesterday...

    Most, if not all, counties in Washington have online search fuctions / property maps for each parcel of land - I've used these extensively. You can even see the amount of high property taxes being paid by the waterfront owner that you want to trespass on for free!
     
  15. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    Owning waterfront is not the same as owning the tidelands, and that seems to be the focus of this thread. WA state did sell off a large amount of Puget Sound tidelands, but for the casual beach walker and angler, it's not even close to easy to discern which tidelands are private property and which are not. Many a waterfront owner mistakenly or purposely claims ownership of the tidelands that they do not have title to. I think that is the issue Bradley is trying to address. A similar thing happens sometimes on rivers. I ask the property owner to please call the Sheriff's office. Unfortunately the vast majority of County deputies are uninformed about riparian rights, but at least the lag time buys time enough for me to fish and move on.

    Sg
     
  16. sashjo

    sashjo Member

    Riparian/littoral law in WA State is very complex. It is clear that some here do not respect the rights of waterfront property owners. The attitude that "asking for forgiveness is better than asking for permission", is wrong and may land your butt in jail one day. I don't believe that I am being unreasonable when I expect better of fellow fisherman.
     
    daveypetey likes this.
  17. Wayne Chan

    Wayne Chan Member

    I believe in respecting private property. I also believe in respecting public access rights. The similar thing on rivers that Sg talks about particularly gets my goat when somebody asks me to pay a fee to "trespass" on property they don't own. Would you whip out the technology right then and there? This day and age, it is not difficult to access information.
     
    daveypetey likes this.
  18. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    it is also clear that some do not respect the rights of the public to have access to tidelands that the government didnt have the right to "sell" in the first. According to the public trust doctrine which has roots dating back to the romans, the intertidal space from the mean high water mark to extreme low tide are to be held, in trust by the government for the use of the public. This means that neither the government nor the person owning adjacent property should be able to claim exclusive rights to the property.
    http://www.slc.ca.gov/policy_statements/public_trust/public_trust_doctrine.pdf

    Being a fisherman I would expect you to understand why we may cross "boundaries", sometimes seeing the rezzies or cutts jumping 100ft past those signs is too tempting, but it sounds like you might be the kindof person to chase off someone who is just trying to have a good time fishing. In which case fine have the beach to your self.

    Yes you should be respectful. yes you should pack out your garbage and leader trimmings or other trash you may come across, but not just because its someones property, because the beings that truely own and inhabit the property aren't able to do it themselves.

    By the way its not trespassing if im in a kayak floating inches above your "property", whats is the real difference between that and wading. lets say I caught my fly on my back cast in a bush on your property, would you prefer I break it off as opposed to getting out of the kayak and untangling it? either I'm littering or I'm tresspassing. Personally i don't give two shits about trespassing, you dont own the beach no matter what some piece of paper says.
     
    Jim Wallace and dryflylarry like this.
  19. jeff bandy

    jeff bandy Make my day

    Pat, although I agree with you in principle. I have to side with the landowners on this one. Whether it was right or wrong of the state to sell the tidelands is a mute point. They did and the owners pay high taxes on them.
    I am willing to bet those who think it's okay to trespass don't own land and pay taxes on that land. If they did, they would be thinking twice about ignoring someone else's rights. How would you like it if you woke up one morning and found someone in your backyard?
    The argument that "it wasn't right to sell the land to them so it's okay for me to ignore the sign" is just as lame as saying "It ain't illegal tell you get caught".
    Personally I think the state should have to buy all of the tidelands back.
    One more thing. That public trust link is from California. This is Washington. Different state, different laws.
     
  20. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

    Anyone want my tax bill?