A Sign of Good Fishing

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by miyawaki, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. Bradley Miller Dances with fish

    Posts: 440
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +104 / 0
    Wow.

    Ok, first of all.....the size of the 'tax bill' is only relevant to this discussion if the money in question is calculated with the actual ownership of the intertidal zone included. In other words, once again, do you or do you NOT have any sort of title to the intertidal zone? If not, then the size of your property taxes is irrelevant. And no, I do NOT want to pay it. But thats not the issue here. If your 'beach front' property does not include ownership of the land (see the above post regarding beaches that Washington sold off....) then it's not yours. Regardless of what you pay in taxes. Yes or no?

    At any rate, (pardon the pun), I agree it's best to avoid all of this hassle and hard feelings if possible.
    And Steve.......do you own waterfront? Can I fish there? Please? :)

    And yet another comment....there is an ongoing discussion in the 'watercraft' forum about kayaks.
    It is my understanding that as long as you're floating, you're not trespassing. A small kayak can float in a couple of inches of water sooooooooo this seems to be a good solution to some potential trespassing issues. Leave no trace!
  2. dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    Posts: 4,095
    Near the Fjord
    Ratings: +562 / 0

    Here's Washington States Doctrine:
    https://fortress.wa.gov/ecy/publications/publications/93054.pdf
  3. jeff bandy Make my day

    Posts: 2,198
    Edmonds, Wa.
    Ratings: +252 / 1
    Quote from that. "The opinions expressed in this report do not represent State
    of Washington, Washington Department of Ecology"
  4. SeaRun Fanatic Member

    Posts: 401
    Northwest, WA
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    Yep.

    Leland - It does seem more than a little arrogant to initiate a thread suggesting that flyfishers ignore legal, posted signage. I agree with those who feel that all tidelands should be public, and what you do personally is your call, but as a representative of Orvis, I think you should err on the side of what is legal. Do you recommend other illegal fishing behavior simply because you don't agree with the law?
  5. Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Posts: 5,635
    Somewhere on the Coast
    Ratings: +539 / 0
    I don't like to trespass on posted property. That doesn't mean that I always won't do it. There are situations where I might stretch the boundaries a bit, but since I leave only tracks in the sand that are gone after the next tide, I wouldn't feel that I'd be doing any harm. I wouldn't be there long, and there would have to be some compelling reason (the presence of fish) for taking a chance on getting "evicted." That said, I know of enough public places where I can fish from the beach, or launch my yak, so that my minor trespassing has been a very rare occurrence.

    I don't even think its legal to drop anchor on someones tidelands. Even that may be "trespassing." Somebody, anybody, please correct me if I'm wrong. I do know that oyster growers don't like anchors gouging up their oyster beds.

    Otherwise, I may eventually end up having to get one of those spendy Minnkota electrics with a GPS "smart" controller that will hold the boat in position, without having to anchor.
    Anyway, this might be a possible solution for fishing over private tidelands, so that one does not have to worry so much about their anchor "trespassing" on someone's private tidelands in current or wind.
  6. sashjo Member

    Posts: 531
    Lakewood, WA.
    Ratings: +4 / 0
    I would imagine that Orvis is unaware of Leland's promotion of illegal activity in a public forum. My respect for Leland just dropped a few notches.
  7. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,454
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,575 / 0
    All I saw is a photograph that Leland posted. It raises the question, is the property beyond that sign private tidelands, or not? Because enough landowners post No Tresspassing on property they don't actually own, it creates a question for every beach hiker and angler.

    And the state, like government so often does, follows instead of leading, as noted in Jeff's post that WDOE takes no position. This leaves it incumbent on every beach user to individually research every parcel of tideland they are interested in visiting in order to ascertain whether it is publicly or privately held. In my limited attempts, I found it to be a total PITA.

    Sg
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  8. Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Posts: 5,635
    Somewhere on the Coast
    Ratings: +539 / 0
    The solution is having a law or laws making it illegal to post a sign that has intentionally wrong info in regards to private property, tidelands, trespassing, etc; and it also must be one with teeth that imposes a stiff fine for violators who attempt to buffalo the public with such lying piece-of-sh*t signs. As well as vigorous enforcement of said law(s).
  9. Jason Rolfe Wanderer

    Posts: 1,178
    the beach
    Ratings: +372 / 0
    I have to agree with Curt--Leland posted a picture with a few thoughts on what he sees in that picture. He wasn't encouraging everyone to go out and start looking for places to trespass. I don't think there's any need to start bringing Orvis into it and saying he should be some kind of high and mighty representative. He's a fisherman. He's put a lot of years into beach fishing around here, and enriched that fishing for all of us in the process. I'm sure Leland doesn't need people to defend him here, but even so.

    I mean, really. I would be surprised if anyone on here has NEVER "trespassed." Even just a little bit.

    My guess is I probably won't get yelled at for fishing those kinds of beaches more than a handful of times in my life--and that's fine with me.

    J
  10. Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    Posts: 1,013
    Des Moines
    Ratings: +741 / 0
    Jeff, I know that was a different state, that is beside the point, and I knew someone was gonna call that out, I shared it because of the first few paragraphs about the public trust doctrine, not the rest of the laws about cali.

    Bradley, if just your paddle touched the private beach underwater when kayaking, you would be trespassing. Ive done a lot of research on this topic, and there have been instances of people posting signs on land that isn't really theirs, I think I read that about a river somewhere though.

    Steve If your place has great fishing I think we could all pitch in a little to help, even if its an offering of flies and smoked salmon, as long as we can fish there:)

    I dont have anything against people owning the tidelands, my family owns tidelands as well, I just dont like that they were sold in the first place, and I dont care for beach nazis.

    Personally I'd say we should hit up my dads place down in shelton, the chums have to go right by it to get to some of the south sound estuaries and the squaxin tribe does very well netting out there every year. Maybe we can do a trip in the next couple days for those of us that dont own beachfront property, I'm off till wednesday send me a pm and maybe we can split the gas.

    Lastly, walking up to someones door is just as much trespassing as walkng on their beach, and its a little more awkward, so I'll stick to my approach. Done

    PS, I believe leland just retired, so the guys at orvis corpo can suck it if they got a problem.
  11. Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Posts: 5,635
    Somewhere on the Coast
    Ratings: +539 / 0
    A couple of years ago, I was told that I was trespassing when using a "semi-private" launch on a local estuary, and I quit using it. The people in the immediate nearby community have enjoyed lunching privileges at this spot for decades, but now the property owners are worried about liability problems and "too many people using it," so they are now trying to stop the public from using it. Turns out the gentleman who told me that I could no longer launch at this spot is either the club president or chief spokesman for the club that owns this property. He showed up at a recent public meeting sponsored by the WDFW about a possible public boat launch on the estuary. I think he was there to advise everyone present that his club is trying to revoke these historic "launching privileges."

    I was there and had my say. I was in favor of developing a throw-in launch for small boats and kayaks, canoes, etc. But I also said that anyone who was determined to paddle back in there already could do it now, but with some effort. I also mentioned that I could easily run my power boat in there from a boat ramp only about 5 miles away from where they suggested putting in a launch site, if I paid the launch fee.

    The WDFW spokespeople offered up their proposals for siting a launch in the area. These were met with mixed responses, mostly negative.

    Of the many people present who voiced their negative concerns over putting a launch in on the estuary, I noted that nearly all of those speaking against the launch either: lived waterfront on the estuary; raised oysters nearby; were local outdoorsmen who lived nearby and enjoyed hunting and fishing there, or who already enjoyed some launching privileges in the area. In other words, they had everything to lose if a launch gets put in, and nothing to lose if it doesn't. I figured that these folks, or some of them, might be just a wee bit biased in their appraisals of the situation. They cited fears of meth labs, illegal garbage dumping, car-prowls, etc if a launch were put in. Trying to paint the most negative picture they could. I could smell the bullshit getting thicker by the moment.
    I kept my mouth shut, partially because I could see that I was severely outnumbered, but also because I know as a fact (actually, a self-evident truth) that estuaries aren't places that can stand up to the abuse that they suffer due to the antics of the general public. This estuary probably should retain its difficulty of access, just so that it can retain its pristine nature.

    Myself, I am conflicted by my getting older and it getting harder each year to lug my U-12 the 100 yards or so on the crummy little trail that defies a 2-wheel cart, verses my desire to keep this place unspoiled. If it becomes easy to access, the increased impact of many more people enjoying this place will undoubtedly lead to the degradation of the experience back there.
    They won't get going on this thing for a while if they go ahead with it. Earliest estimate of when any launch will be put in is at least 2015, so there's some relief there.
  12. Steve Saville Active Member

    Posts: 2,472
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +310 / 1
    We have had several "get-togethers" at my place. I have said many times on this forum that you are more than welcome to fish on my property. If you are into the Pink Salmon as a fishery, there are few places that are much better during the month of August in the odd years. The coho are also there periodically and for the first time, this year we've seen some chums. Once in a while, searun cutts can be had but it's a sand flat so they are scarce. It's not a fishing mecca but I have caught many fish there and we've had some fun fly swaps and casting practice sessions there. Puget Sound Flyfishers has had the annual picnic there and will again in 2013.

    We love to share what we have. I was merely being a smart ass when I asked for someone to pay our tax bill but it is pretty steep by anyone's standards. And yes...our deed does include the tidelands to the "mean low tide line." The property has been passed down by two previous generations (since 1934) and my wife and I along with one of her sisters and husband have bought out all of the other owners so that our children can continue to enjoy the place as long as they can hang on to it. We own 197 feet in width and the mean mark is about 150-175 feet off our bulkhead. That's a chunk of ground due to the flat and anyone is welcome to pass or fish as long as the property is respected.
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  13. SeaRun Fanatic Member

    Posts: 401
    Northwest, WA
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    Well done Steve!
  14. Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    Posts: 1,013
    Des Moines
    Ratings: +741 / 0
    I don' t always trespass, but when I do, I prefer Dos Cutthroat.

    267693_461495557226547_1138595380_n.jpg 524951_461495547226548_726026229_n.jpg
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