A steelhead is a salmon??

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Snake, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. Snake

    Snake tryin' not to get too comfortable

    If they say it's "wild", I expect it to be wild. If it's hatchery-origin, or farmed, I want to know that, and expect full disclosure. As previously posted, I would never eat a farmed salmon, 'cuz of the crap they're fed. I want to know what I'm eating, and where it came from. That's why I asked.

    If they say it's a "salmon", I expect it to be a salmon. I'm pretty sure it wasn't (based on the color of the flesh, and the 'explanation' from the staff), and that's why I'm pissed.

    I couldn't. If they are passing off wild steel as wild salmon, I feel obligated to call 'em on it. My friends (and girlfriend) totally supported my rant, 'cuz they share my core beliefs. It didn't totally ruin the evening. But we went someplace else to spend our money on desert, coffee, and pre-bedtime cocktails. And I'll never patronize that particular restaurant again, even though I've had many pleasurable experiences there in the past. I'm voting with my wallet.
     
  2. kodiaksalmon

    kodiaksalmon Jeff B.

    Agreed. Wild steelhead is day and night different from wild salmon.
     
  3. Buck

    Buck "Ride'n Dirty."

    OK, Wait a sec. here you edited my post and that's OK, you didn't totally change it around but really made it seem cut and dry.

    Did they serve you steelhead or salmon? How did you know? Did you see the skin? Was it a hatchery fish? How did you know? My point is that if the staff kept calling it "steelhead salmon," they don't know what it is. It's fish to them. It's rude to talk to people in the service industry like that. They (most likely) are not as informed as you are. You have had the privilege of being informed through others, who may or may not have scolded you. But I doubt that they did it at your place of business.
    Now the guy down in Cali. (who was featured in an article) who said if they can't get salmon, he will call his buddy in WA. on the Res. and get "wild steelhead."...this guy knew what he is doing. For sure. And I don't know you dude, so it's not a slam, seriously, but to come on here and toot your horn about the waiter that mis-spoke and then slam the restaurant. I'm not impressed.
     
  4. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

    I think that the heart is in the right place folks but a lot of that anger/resentment/whatever needs pointed towards our lawmakers also. They are still working within the law which faulted or not is still the law.

    Also I don't know many people (like none) that can tell by the fillet if it is Sockeye, silver, small king, or steelhead if it is really fresh.
     
  5. Nick Andrews

    Nick Andrews New Member

    I would like the government or the fishing industry to set regulations that would require markets and restaurants require following information.

    1. Fresh or Frozen
    2. Wild, Hatchery Origin or Farmed
    3. River System Origin or Ocean Caught
    4. Gill Net or Troll Caught
    5. Supplier

    A little transparency in the fishing industry would give consumers the tools necessary to make an informed decision when buying seafood.
     
  6. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast Active Member

    Any fish that isn't farm raised is called wild in the restaurant biz. By wild, they mean it lived in the wild and not a net pen. Could be of hatchery origin or could be native. They're all caught in nets, so I'll be fishing the runoff of hell's glaciers before I buy any.
     
  7. djzaro

    djzaro New Member

    Please send pm of the name to me also. Thanks.
     
  8. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

    I might be the bad guy here, but you should of asked before you ordered it and since you had it in front of you, you should of eaten it. You weren't doing the fish any good because it is dead and it can't swim and lay eggs anymore.

    But since I don't eat fish. It makes me no never mind.

    Besides you said it was an Indian fish. They are allowed to catch and sell the reservation fish.

    Jim
     
  9. Buck

    Buck "Ride'n Dirty."

    Wait a minute here.....Just hold on! You don't eat fish Jim! :eek: I guess that could be possible, don't eat it just catch it and let it go......OK ;)

    Now I was unaware of the fact the the fish in the resturant in question didn't get eaten either. :hmmm:
     
  10. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

    I make it easy when I'm ordering fish in a restaurant, make it cod, snapper, grouper, pollock, etc. No salmon, trout, steel head.
    Eat beef, you don't know where it been either.
    Another thing about restaurants is if ya really want to know whats on your plate, go back in the kitchen and look at what's under the counters.
    9 times out of 10 you won't eat there ever again.
     
  11. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Dead spot on. Restaurants only seem to differentiate between "wild" and "farmed."

    My mom served up some "farmed steelhead" on my last visit. She thought I'd enjoy it, as I have been getting skunked all Fall. She's 87 and getting older all the time, so I told her it was delicious! I did ask her to try to buy wild caught Alaska salmon in the future, and gently admonished her to avoid buying farmed fish or any wild steelhead in the future, as I am opposed to the commercial salmon farming industry and the commercial harvest of steelhead. She agreed. Thanks Mom!:thumb:
     
  12. Walt K

    Walt K Searcher

    Best description I've ever heard for steelhead is "rainbow trout gone bad" ...
     
  13. prosopium

    prosopium Member

    I dont eat at resaturants much but when i do and they serve any kind of fish, i always quiz them on it just to see what they know. and in most cases they dont have a clue.

    Why i mention that is because you failed to do it and therefore i agree with a few others that you shouldnt have freaked out. First thing i ask is what kind of fish it is and then almost more importantly is if they know what technique was used to catch it. if they dont know the answer to one or both of these questions i wont buy it. i feel though that if you are dining at a fine restaurant that requires you to pay out 20-40 bucks for fish they should know what it is.

    Im still wondering though if what you ordered was steelhead or salmon, you dont seem to know. did the manager ever figure it out? heres a hint if it was really delicious it was steelhead, if it was so-so it was salmon.
     
  14. herl

    herl Member

    I've said it before and I'll say it again- whenever the topic of farmed fish comes up: Please DO eat farmed fish folks!

    Maybe not farmed salmon, there's some issues with that industry as it is currently practiced. However, you should definitely be choosing farmed fish over wild fish in general.

    Overfishing is alive and well, and responsible for declining stocks of wild fish all around the globe. As with any other resource (for example; timber and every other food source) intensive culture for human consumption is the only logical, civilized and sustainable way to maintain supply without destroying wild stocks.

    There are several well established, low-impact fish farming models that we all (those of us who like to eat fish) should be patronizing. Examples of these are farmed Tilapia, Catfish, rainbow trout and hybrid striped bass. These operations are less wasteful and less damaging to the environment than meat and poultry production, especially if they are conducted here in the US. Techniques for farming other species are improving.

    Sure, there are a number of apparently well-managed wild stocks of fish out there that can produce a finite number of fish/year. These should be considered a premium priced delicacy, not food for the ever-growing masses. Those folks who think they are doing the world a favor by eating wild fish can only get away with it because everyone else is eating farm raised fish. God help us if they ever convince the other half to eat wild too!

    I don't get worked up about much but fishermen making statements like "don't eat farmed fish" is one thing that really gets me going.

    .. stepping off the soapbox-
    Eric
     
  15. g_smolt

    g_smolt Recreational User

    Damn there is just a PILE of ignorance and self-righteousness on display here.

    Do you think that some server, or even a proper Maitre'D, is going to know the ins and outs of the seafood industry?

    Probably not. Your expectations of them to do so, and haughty dismissal of them when they fail to perform, is rather self-absorbed.

    And speaking of self-absorbed, there are probably more wild and sustainable commercial fisheries in the US than Sustainable, minimal-impact seafood farms IN THE WORLD, and Alaska Wild Salmon at over 200 million fish is certainly sustainable, abundant, and very well-managed.

    Do yourselves a favor and get educated on the fish you pursue for sport. They are someone else's livelihood, someone else's cultural heritage, and someone else's food. We can't all be rich enough to send it back.
     
  16. Before we get down on Snake too much here, guys, most Seattle seafood restaurants, and certainly any that considers itself to be of a good quality as any in Pike Place Market should, will know where their salmon comes from. I routinely ask whether salmon is wild (which includes hatchery, as others point out, but not farmed) or farmed and I have never been told "I don't know" by any restaurant in the Seattle area. It is their business to know and to be able to answer their patrons' questions. If the server does not know, then he/she should offer to inquire (she seemed to know, but not to be very knowledgeable about salmon, and the manager did know where it came from).

    I can understand Snake's being upset to have Steelhead being served as salmon and, as Freestone pointed out, the establishment probably was legally remiss in labeling steelhead as salmon to begin with. That said, sometime one has to simply cover one's upset and take the message to another venue, which Snake did by sending a note to the proprieter.

    As far as the abundance of "wild and sustainable commercial fisheries in the US" or the world, they are tanking rapidly world-wide and the success of today's Alaska salmon fishery is no guarantee that it will survive 10, 20 or 50 years from now. Think how fast salmon stocks on the west coast have declined starting in California and moving north. I, for one, wouldn't bet on Alaska salmon being sustainable for very long in the face of changing climate and ocean conditions, increased demand, and increased fishing pressure from increasingly technologically advanced fishing fleets. We may live to tell our grandchildren about the seemingly unlimited supply of Alaska salmon that once returned to the rivers and streams of coastal Alaska, but do no more.

    D
     
  17. Snake

    Snake tryin' not to get too comfortable

    Update:

    I haven't had a response from my e-mail to the owner, and when I called the restaurant today, the person I spoke to was very evasive on the subject. I was (eventually) able to speak to a prep chef, who (eventually) admitted that what they were advertising as 'wild salmon' was indeed steelhead. He didn't know if it was hatchery or wild (or wouldn't admit it).

    I've gotten a lot of PM requests for the name of the restaurant, which demonstrates to me that many of you truly care about this issue.

    The restaurant is Matt's In The Market.

    I feel stupid that I am just now becoming aware of this problem, because it has surfaced several times in the past on this board:

    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php?t=43961&highlight=wild steelhead menu

    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php?t=38567&highlight=wild steelhead menu

    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php?t=29678&highlight=wild steelhead menu

    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php?t=23357&highlight=wild steelhead menu

    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/board/showthread.php?t=17489&highlight=wild steelhead menu

    These threads show that being proactive, and speaking rationally, can have a positive result. I don't know if the WSC sent out letters this year, or not. If the restaurant owners realize serving wild steelhead is wrong to a large number of people, maybe they won't buy it from the tribes, and maybe the tribes will get the message. Or maybe the law itself will need to change.

    I think the restaurant industry recognizes the controversy, and is mis-labelling steelhead on purpose, or at least that's what it seems like in this instance.

    I'm sorry if I come off as 'haughty' or 'self-absorbed'. It wasn't like I was beating the waitress down for not knowing what kind of fish it was. I assumed it was salmon, as advertised, and trusted it was from a sustainable resource. I should have asked before I ordered. I didn't freak out or make a big scene. None of the tables around us even knew what was happening. I try not to be a complete neanderthal.

    But I will not support a restaurant that serves steelhead, unless it is all documented to be hatchery fish. Since they don't need to (legally) distinguish hatchery from wild, I geuss I won't patronize a restaurant that sells steelhead, period.

    I'm re-thinking my stance on restaurants that serve salmon, too. But damn, that rules out a lot of decent eateries....

    This whole incident has been quite a revelation to me.
     
  18. Nick Andrews

    Nick Andrews New Member

    When I eat at a restaurant, I expect that restaurant to know where there product is coming from, that goes for the owner, chef, and servers. Before going to law school I worked in the restaurant business for almost ten years. At the nicer restaurants I worked at you were required to know what was on the menu. If they do not, it is probably a crappy place (this has nothing to do with how much your meal cost either), because if they do not take pride in what they are serving then you know they don't care about anything else.

    Also, if I see Buffalo on the menu I will order that over Beef any day of the week. Better for the environment, taste better and better for your health.
     
  19. Citori

    Citori Piscatorial Engineer

    Snake, I for one do not think you owe anyone an apology. I applaud your social consciousness, even if you aren't armed with infinite knowledge on the subject - few of us are. My guess is there is one more person who will think about the subject of your question than there was before. There are some fundamental truths. Wild stocks of a number of runs and species are in trouble as a direct result of abuse of the resource. The pendulum needs to swing back, and it won't do it by itself. For every "sustainable" fisherman out there, there are others who are mining depleted resources in the Sound, in the Columbia, on Peninsula streams, and Puget Sound tributaries. We, the sport fishing community, with diffuse voices, take it in the neck over and over again. To paraphrase, "I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it any more." When I get like that, I don't like to be confused with facts...

    Wild steelhead on a plate is wrong. Period. I don't care who caught it, where they caught it, or why they killed it. There is nothing in the proud native american heritage that says genocide of a species, or run, is OK. Allowing commercial take of even incidental wild steelhead is wrong. You can sugar coat it however you want, but that doesn't change facts.

    I applaud your awareness and willingness to act. You may be better prepared, or better informed in the future, but it does not change the sentiment.

    I know there are others who will disagree with me, that's ok. This is my $.02.

    I say, "Good on you."
     
  20. kodiaksalmon

    kodiaksalmon Jeff B.

    iagree 100%