About keeping Methow River hatchery steelhead

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Don Barton, Sep 19, 2009.

  1. Don Barton

    Don Barton Member

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    I have just returned from three days fishing the Methow River with a group. We used guides for two days. There was a lot of talk, even among some of the guides, regarding seemingly conflicting rules for the upcoming steelhead season on the Methow.

    The Washington Fish and Game has said that it will be very important for anglers to keep hatchery steelhead caught on the Methow this year. It is likely they will increase the limit from 2 to 4 fish. Moreover they have said that if we anglers, as a group, do not keep hatchery steelhead the Methow will likely be closed to all steelhead fishing in future years. On their face, these policies seem to be inconsistent.

    So, when we got off the river yesterday a Fish and Game guy came by our group to check with the guides on how our fishing day went. When he has free I asked him about the seemingly confliction positions regarding hatchery steelhead.

    Here is what the Fish and Game guy said:

    • Wild Methow River steelhead are on the endangered species list
    • Control over management of the wild steelhead rests with NOAA
    • The state must apply to NOAA to get a permit to open the river to steelhead fishing.
    • There is ample scientific evidence that the release of hatchery fingerlings is a great benefit to the survival rate of wild fingerlings when the fish migrate together down the river to the ocean, because hatchery fish are more vulnerable than wild fish to various predators. In short, hatchery fish are sacrificed to protect wild fish on their run down the river.
    • But, it is not good policy to have a large return of mature hatchery fish.
    • NOAA could remove the returning hatchery fish at dams below the Methow and not allow a fishing season.
    • But the state has asked NOAA to open the river to a steelhead season -- but the permit request is based upon the responsibility of anglers to remove the unwanted excess hatchery steelhead population.
    • As a group, if we anglers do not remove enough hatchery fish this season, in future seasons NOAA will do it for us at the dams and they will deny the state a permit to open a steelhead season on the Methow.

    In my experience, most of us fly fishing anglers practice catch and release. At our core, we generally believe it is best to release what we catch.

    Fair warning. We will need to act contrary to our natural instincts on the Methow during the upcoming steelhead season. We need, in our own interest, to help the state remove hatchery steelhead to protect the wild run and to preserve our right to fish steelhead on the Methow in future years.

    I am no expert regarding these matters. I decided to make this post based upon the general confusion expressed by those in my group some of whom have a lot of experience in fishery management matters. Clearly the reasoning behind the policies of the Fish and Game were not clearly understood by most of those in my group. .

    I encourage those who know more than I to correct any errors I may have made and to expand this thread.
     
  2. East Fork

    East Fork Active Member

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    I have no problem killing hatchery fish. Why would I?
     
  3. Rooselk

    Rooselk Flyfisher Wannabe

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    Yep. I agree.
     
  4. Joe M.

    Joe M. another addict

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    Yup, get the hatchery fish out, to minimize any genetic dilution or competition for spawning gravel.
     
  5. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    i'll dropkick a hatchery fish in the face and not think twice about it
     
  6. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    Those natural tendencies to release hatchey fish will be gone shortly after you start killing them and smokeing or BBQ ther flesh!
    After all you preserving the greatest fish in our waters THE WILD STEELHEAD, you are also preserving the greatest fishery in the NW wherever you are fishing and fullfilling those basic killer instincs that will flame up on the first BONK! :thumb:
     
  7. Itchy Dog

    Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

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    I'll echo what's been said already. Hatchery fish, no matter the species, with their inferior genetics, are a threat to wild stock and are best served up on an alder plank. My wife is actually looking forward to me bringing something home to show for my time on the water for a change!
     
  8. CLO

    CLO Bonk Hatcheries

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    I don't get why we're supposed to bonk methow hatchery fish because they are hatched from native strains in the river...? They are not brought in from other places...methow hatchery fish are native fish born in hatcheries then released...
     
  9. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast Active Member

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    Speak for yourself. If it's a hatchery fish or even a wild coho from a big run, I don't hesitate to cross their eyes.
     
  10. Backyard

    Backyard SANCHO!

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    I'll be helping out the NOAA, but they should up the limit to, no limit, if they really want them out.

    But then the fishing will suck, and no one will go spend money in Pateros.


    They are not released as fry. They are pen raised and fed pellets.

    Why do you think, compared to wild fish, they are easier to catch, fight less, and look like shit.
     
  11. Jmills81

    Jmills81 The Dude Abides

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    i will be going BONKERS this fall
     
  12. segge

    segge Member

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    CLO ... Lots has been written over this issue. Here is some info from a Native Fish Society newsletter ... it applies to steelhead also:

    "We know from years of scientific research that hatcheries using
    wild brood stock produce salmonids that survive better than old
    hatchery stock. Even though this is true, it has also be shown that
    hatchery fish from wild brood stock have a 20% lower survival rate
    than wild fish in their first generation of hatchery culture. In the second
    generation their survival rate is 40% less than wild salmon.
    Hatcheries cannot replace or recover wild salmonids. Hatcheries
    can produce adults for harvest but they cannot increase productivity
    of wild salmon. There is evidence that when hatchery fish spawn
    naturally with wild salmon natural production declines. Hatchery
    salmon contribute to the decline of wild salmon."

    (NFS "Strong Runs" Fall 2008)
     
  13. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    The whole hatchery steelhed issue on the Methow illustrates how complicated and at times absurd steelhed management in general and ESA fisheries management in particular can be.

    First we need to remember that the hatchery steelhead returning to the Methow are included in the ESA listing of the upper Columbia River steelhead; they are considered to be essential to the "recovery" of those fish. So what we are talking about is the whole scale killing of ESA listed fish and in years such as this that slaughter actually makes sense and one could easily argue that it is essential. Yet in other years with different survival conditions the very same folks argue it is essential that those same hatchery fish be allowed to spawn in the wild and they require the same protection that the naturally produced fish.

    BTW -
    The Methow hatchery and wild steelhead are essentially the same genetically (by design) and it is likely that many of the so called "wild" steelhead had at least one parent that was a hatchery fish.

    Tight lines
    Curt
     
  14. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

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    The Upper Columbia has been through some huge changes in management structure. The Methow has three different steelhead entering the system.
    Hatchery fish bred from hatchery steelhead for many years.
    Hatchey /wild bred from one wild steelhead( native to the river )and one hatchery steelhead, first generation fish will have an adipose and a mutated dorsal, do not Bonk one of these!
    Full on wild no markings or missing fins, the cream of the crop often caught on a dry fly.

    Whatever the complete management operations it is definutely working well and we should respect that, and honor there strategy by removing the Hatchery fish with missing adipose fins.
     
  15. MasterAnglerTaylor

    MasterAnglerTaylor Member

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    Not that i catch alot of steelhead, i would if i had boat....but thats another issue. Usually if we go fishing we are in car so not really any room to store a fish. Is there anything against catching a hatchery steelhead and just bonking it there and throwing it back to river? As long as you still write in your catch card and everything of course, i figure it cant do much harm, nutrients for the river?
     
  16. Yakfish

    Yakfish Dad, Angler, Guide

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    Ladies and Gents,

    I have been tracking steelhead returns. They’re high. I’ve been doing my part and have harvested 6 hatchery steelies from the Columbia so far. We had a fillet on the BBQ for Sunday dinner, it was incredible! My thoughts will likely align with WDFW’s for the Methow River. I encourage the department to take a strong position on hatchery steelhead harvest with the guides and for that matter all the catch and release fly fisherman that may not feel comfortable with keeping a hathery steelhead. On another note, I’ve had a great time the last few years on the Columbia and lower Yakima harvesting as many smallmouth as I legally can to fill the freezer with good quality meat and to help control a major salmonid predator. I even bought a bass boat, crazy huh.

    We need to help in the management of fisheries, and if harvest is what will help than let's help. If you do keep a fish I promote putting it to good use for table fare.

    Tight Lines, David Child

    www.dreamflyfishing.com
     
  17. Matt Burke

    Matt Burke Active Member

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    So when did they open the hatchery kill last year?
     
  18. Zen Piscator

    Zen Piscator Supporting wild steelhead, gravel to gravel.

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  19. CodyM

    CodyM New Member

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    Bonked hatchery fish = DEEEEELIICIOUS
     
  20. plugboots

    plugboots Member

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    Also, "native" to the Methow is really the wrong term as there was a dam across it near Pateros for many years, killing the original fish.
    http://www.critfc.org/text/press/20021004.html

    Whatever.
     

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