Access

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by stewart dee, May 13, 2011.

  1. stewart dee

    stewart dee Guest

    So with some scouting around for beach access I find a couple of things. Some folks post NO BEACH ACCESS and or PRIVATE PROPERTY. Now I see this beach that has public access for boat launch. Both sides of that are heavily posted as private. I could be wrong but = Isn't the high water mark the "private area" and everything below that mark public? Are these signs posted as just a deterrent? :beathead:
     
  2. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

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    Not true, there is no blanket rule. You may be confusing the rules for rivers with the beach.
     
  3. Milt Roe

    Milt Roe Active Member

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    Do a search. Lots of good information here on this topic. Most tidelands are private, but whether or not you can traverse across them and fish from them remains an unresolved issue in WA.
     
  4. stewart dee

    stewart dee Guest

    Yeah it is a mystery. I mean if it were me on my back patio bbq and cold beer. I look out and see some guy fishing. Good for him, the fish need some company. I found a nice point over on Whidbey Is. couple weeks ago on the west side. Little community with a cool fishing area out front, but the private no access signs up everywhere. I am new to the salt game and guess this will be something I will see a lot of? Well I am going to this cool little place this weekend and try my luck and my new line and flies.
     
  5. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

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    I say just do it anyways. If they ask you to leave so be it, leave and be nice about it.

    But, to not try it is stupid. Whats the worst that can happen, a trespass citation (that not ideal of course LOL!) but life is to short to head every no trespass sign u see, esp on the beach. Just try to be a resonsible beach user which I am sure you are. Life is nothing without some risk and adventure. To me, the hardest thing about trespassing is parking :)

    Best of luck on the SRC. my first fly caught fish was a SRC off marrowstone island on a fly i tied. I had no idea what i was doing I just cast it out and it "swang" with the current and I caught one. :)

    I think the chum fry migration is starting soon so get some chum babies and find some spawner creeks! Also, try fishing over large oyster flats, I have found that to be productive.
     
  6. Matthew Gulbranson

    Matthew Gulbranson Resident Swinger

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    That low tide issue is frustrating. I can't remember exactly, but I believe the property owners own to the mean low tide? Is that right? Even so, if you go out on a -5.0 tide and dig a geoduck, it's the equivalent of cutting down a tree on their property. I don't get it personally.

    I think in most cases you'll be fine, but you'll likely get some cranky ass bastard who will give you some shit for walking on his beach.

    Wish I could go out and cast some flies off some beaches with ya. It's been too long since i've been on a beach with a fly rod. Good luck!
     
  7. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Different peices of property may have different rules. Possible opporutnity to knock on a door, make a new friend and ask about fishing out in front of their property if you respect their property properly.
     
  8. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    Here's what I will tell you. As a private beach owner,our property goes to the mean (average) low tide mark. In the case of the property we own, that's about 150 - 200 feet out from our bulkhead. People are welcome to cross our tidelands and fish from the beach as long as the property is respected. If they want to dig clams, good luck. I wouldn't trust the red tide around here. The holes have to be refilled after. Other owner have simolar rights and some cut you off while others do not. Knock on a door and be nice.
     
  9. stewart dee

    stewart dee Guest

    That knock on the door and ask seems to work best with anything. I am going to stick with public parks, until I get the hang of this salt game. My biggest downfall is the fact I have one salt reel. I see guys that will use a floater and poppers, then change out to a sinking line. I need to buy some more salt gear, or trade some classic clickers for these modern dragger reels. A bunch of classic don't do any good at home when your standing on the beach. Wish I could find a nice loud clicker, that can handle salt. I am going Hatch or Nautilus next? I fished a beach last weekend and it was like something from television. Slow at first and then absolute fury for about an hour. Fun times! I like it better than Steelhead (I think). At least the view and smells are different, more water and still a thousand casts a day.
     
  10. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    Once you get into it you'll love it whether you're on a beach or in a boat. The reel you get doesn't have to be something like a Hatch or Nautilus though you can't do much better than those. I use Ross Reels because the ones I have are relatively inexpensive, have a great warranty, and take a pounding. If my CLA goes bad it cost only about $200 and it's under warranty. I don't use my Billy Pate unless I'm going after really big fish and that would not be here.
     
  11. jwg

    jwg Active Member

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    Public Trust Doctrine

    The details of public trust doctrine may be more of technical interest than practical use. As an eastsider I certainly find access issues confusing and off-putting.

    http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/93054.pdf
    "The public trust doctrine initially applied to all state owned beds of navigable rivers, lakes, and salt waters when the state of Washington entered the Union in 1889. Subsequent to statehood, about 60% of the tidelands on Puget Sound were conveyed into private ownership. Nothing was said in these conveyances about abolishing the public trust doctrine. In other states when such “bare legal title” conveyances have occurred, the public trust burden was not destroyed.15 The Washington court has also supported this view. The Washington Supreme Court has described the public trust doctrine as similar to a covenant running with the land. Unlike other burdens on private property, however, landowners need receive no express notice of the public trust burden on their lands."

    From reading the forums especially before the 2009 Pink run, it seems that the public may have rights of passage under public trust doctrine, while landowners of private tidelands have rights to the resources like clams ... but in practice it is best to be courteous and bend to the beliefs of local land owners even if they are asserting rights they dont actually have. ?

    http://www.tpl.org/what-we-do/where-we-work/washington/puget-sound.html
    The Trust for Public Lands site had access and ownership information for puget sound in what I recall was an interactive map. I dont know if the map tool is still posted or not, I cant find it now. I have attached something I created using it in 2009. Again, not sure if this type of information is of practical use.

    Wisdom from those more knowledgeable is very helpful, especially as regards specifics like what happens when a visitor walk along the shore from public access points like, say, Dash Point state park beach or Carkeek park or Lincoln Park.

    For my part, I am just less likely to enjoy myself if I am anticipating a potential conflict.

    And knocking on doors uninvited is also something I hesitate to do, especially since I am not local. But I suppose I could use the latter fact to my advantage, knock on the door, plead ignorance, and ask nicely.

    View attachment 41309
     
  12. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    Better to knock on my door and ask then to walk on, mess up my beach or climb my bulkhead. If that happened, you'd be sititing in the back of a Sheriff's cruiser. Like I said, enjoy it but don't mess it up. We pay a ton of property tax for the rights to our property.
     
  13. Caveman

    Caveman Member

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    Most people own the tide lands also which is a joke. You can be in a boat that sits a foot off the beach but if you stand there you are on private property

     
  14. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

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    I own the tidelands in front of my
    place as stated in the deed. It can
    vary from lot to lot.

    Why is that a joke?
     
  15. stewart dee

    stewart dee Guest

    Public Trust Doctrine

    Thanks for the info on the reading.
     
  16. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Stew, on second thought, maybe you should not go knocking on doors. The waterfront world may not be ready!
     
  17. sportsman

    sportsman Active Member

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    You are right....it is not a joke and as stated in your deed, you have clear ownership of the tidelands. What is a joke is that the law is inconsistent from one county to another....or is it? I never took the time to research what the law really states from one area to another, mostly because I never hiked the beaches in those areas. I have heard of instances where some landowners are overly agressive enforcing those 'rights', instead of just using common sense; possibly they were pushed that way over years of beach combers abusing the privelage....foul language, beer cans, urinating to name a few. I doubt any of us would react much differently. Ed's suggestion is the best; knock on a door and ask permission, inquire about their neighbors at the same time. Times have indeed changed, I grew up with campfires at Golden Gardens and sleepovers [2 abreast 1/4 mile drag racing every weekend], letting your dogs run free and swimming in the water. Miss those days, but mostly the racing!
     
  18. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    It's no different than if you are Pheasant hunting in some farmer's cornfield without permission. If you owned the cornfield, would you want someone hunting it without your permission? I don't get the joke, either.
     
  19. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    Private tidelands are private. That's mostly the rule that I understand. I always ask permission if I see someone out on their lawn or whatever. I'm pretty sure there is something to that Public Trust Doctrine, but it is all somewhat complicated without straight answers. One thing that bugs me is public tidelands that are managed by Department of Natural Resources. I know that they "lease" some of these tidelands to private companies for the taking of oysters, clams, and, for sure geoducks. So here we have public access to some tidelands but, the oysters are mostly gone because a private company picks them with their lease from DNR. No wonder people tresspass to get some oysters...
     
  20. stewart dee

    stewart dee Guest

    Hey! I am a well groomed, presentable guy. They could be ready?