Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Jason Cotta, Oct 17, 2013.
Based on your statement, I'm guessing you're making two assumptions.
1, a "player" is a fish that isn't eating (otherwise there would be NO difference and your statement wouldn't make sense) but rather taking a fly out of aggression.
2, bead fishing is capitalizing on the fishes desire to consume calories. Therefore:
Beading = fish eating the offering for caloric intake
swinging = fish aggressively attacking the offering
Beading <> fish aggressively attacking the offering
swinging <> fish eating the offering for caloric intake
But I guess this all really depends on if steelhead indeed "eat" and/or strike a fly out of aggression, both of which can't be "proven". Therefore there can be potential for:
Beading = fish aggressively attacking the offering
swinging = fish eating the offering for caloric intake
Which then of course proves your statement incorrect.
I mean, isn't that part of the allure to the creature? We just don't know why they do what they do...or do you know so much more about the topic that you can make statements like above and expect everyone to jump on the wagon? Just curious.
my take is that he meant one technique puts the "fly" right at the fishes face (ie. feeding) and the other requires the fish to move to the fly (ie. player).
Yup. Sorry, should have kept my big mouth shut.
this thread is just as polarizing as the boner thread and has about as much to do with flyfishing. i wonder how many pages it will go? I'm trying real hard here to keep my mouth shut and a straight face. orvis, beads, elastic blue charms, why can i not just get the swivels next to the bobbers?......... hmmmmm. well hell look what happened to miley cyrus. what's next five foot lead skagit heads twerking their way to a shop near you? can't wait for the sporting spring boat parade on the hoh.
probably my favorite post on this thread so far...
to each their own. as long as your method doesn't mame and mangle the fish you release, or have a higher mortality rate for wild fish, fine.
in many places.certain methods are banned, because they're too effective. tnt for instance, or no boat fishing on the D. thats how you protect wild fish, by reducing human contact by regulating the methods allowed, not eliminating it by closing the river, once every wild fish in the river has been caught several times,.
Jason, thanks for your posts. keep the ideas coming.
the fly line as bobber stop i think was on Red's as well.
why have the bead 2-3 inches up from the hook? when drift fishing we always have the corky/bead right next to the hook. just always did it that way i guess.
sweet video thanks for this man
This is so when you set the hook it will stick in the side of the mouth of the fish, rather than them swallowing the hook. In AK, it is a state law to keep a bead 2 inches above the hook or free sliding.
in all seriousness though i would use non slip mono loop or triple surgeon knot in place of perfection loops as perfection loops are weak with a forty to sixty percent break strength factor. otherwise i must say despite my own personal hang ups with the method the rig is well thought out and no doubt effective.
hydrologica is bead fishing more detrimental to wild steelhead then gill nets? If so then I will throw away all my beads. The answer to that question by the way is that gill nets have a higher mortality rate and if you don't agree with that then you don't know what a gill net is or how it works. Until WDFW and the tribes decide to manage wild steelhead properly I will continue to follow the guys swinging flies for winter steelhead with nymph rigs and actually catch fish instead of practicing my spey casting over a couple thousand fish that return to the hoh over the course of 5 months.
If I want to catch a nice steelhead on the swing I will spend my money in a different country (Canada) and actually have a chance at hooking a few fish a day. By the way if the state managed the fishery properly and there were an abundance of steelhead to be caught like there should be I would spend thousands of dollars to fish for them. Instead I will gladly pay thousands to go to Canada and fish over fish.
Gill nets? no, but snagging fish with a bead rig is more detrimental to our wild fish than many other methods. especially tight line presentations. just because we cant stop the gillnets, doesn't mean we shouldnt protect the fish that do make it past them.
yes, i'd rather see gill nets outlawed, than beads, bait, and barbed treble hooks, but i doubt that will happen in my lifetime. so, why not focus on things that we have a chance of changing?
you are missing the point. you and i cant stop the gill nets, but we can limit our impact by using more ethical, less harmful methods. and if regulations only allowed less harmful methods, that are also less effective, and reduce human contact, wdfw would be protecting wild fish better than allowing all those methods, then shutting down the river for the rest of the season.
yes, your rig puts more fish in hand than mine. do you NEED to catch more fish? i wouldnt fish for steelhead if i really NEEDED to catch fish. if i really just cared about catching any kind of fish, i wouldnt use flies, i'd use bait, and i wouldnt use my fly rod, and call it flyfishing. if you need to feed your family, your money will be better spent at the grocery store. afterall, you cant use food stamps at the bait and bead shops.
its too bad more people cant find a better reason to fish, than just catching the most fish possible.
Ack, sorry Jason, I think I was the first to mention gear on here. As for method, there is only one way to stop impact on wild steelhead, and that is don't fish for them. Until you are ready to do that, stop judging other people's legal methods and what they call it. This debate is done, worn out, and ridiculously old!
Concern about the impact of steelhead mortality from C&R is just dumb. There is no impact worth fighting about. The fish live nearly always and are a whole lot more rugged than most give them credit for. Outlawing specific gear types for the purpose of conservation just does not make sense.
Bobber/lead shot fishing is gear fishing. Plain and simple. If that's offensive, then that's a you probem and not my problem. When I fish gear, I am in no way embarrassed by it. I don't know why people get so offended when it's pointed out to them that they are fishing gear. It is what it is. Own it.
"Concern about the impact of steelhead mortality from C&R is just dumb. There is no impact worth fighting about. The fish live nearly always and are a whole lot more rugged than most give them credit for. Outlawing specific gear types for the purpose of conservation just does not make sense."
Please provide data or studies relevant to wild winter Steelhead catch & release fishing impacts here. In my experience, the more aggressively that we fish, the more directly that we impact the fishery with more aggressive tackle and methods, in an attempt to assure that we can hook more fish, and the more fish that we catch doing so, the more risk we pose to wild Steelhead. Using these rigs is merely gear fishing with a fly rod. "It is what it is" indeed. Maybe fine for eradicating the pestilence of hatchery fish. But hardly a responsible conservation oriented method of wild Steelhead management.
Vedder and Hooten are the 2 I have read. It's pretty darned clear as I see it. I'm sure the Vedder study is winter fish, I dont recall Hotten on the top of my head.
Winter steelhead, especially on the OP suffer from poor management not C&R mortality. People have been up in arms recently when the Hoh missed escapement, again. It missed by a couple hundred fish or less. In the states eyes that is a success, because the goal is to have every fish above minimum escapement harvested. That's the problem. If every fish that missed the nets was caught and we called the C&R mortality 5% (a high number IMO) then we C&R guys killed 100-150 fish. Hell that's within the realm of standard sampling error in estimating the actual escapement.
Let's fight amongst ourselves over very few mortalities though. It's far easier than trying to change the management paradigm.
Heres a thought, how about trying to find a way to chalenge foregone oppertunity in court. It sure would be nice to be able to try and raise money from the nymphers to do that. They have jobs and bank accounts too. That would be a first step in actually getting more adults on the gravel and not 150 or 200 fish either.
We are all gear fisherman then. I guess we all have to live with that. I am curious though Charles why you care what other people call how they fish? No, honestly why do you feel the need to call Jason gear fisherman if your not offended by the term? The logic of it breaks down for me. Is it just a state definition of fly fishing you go with, or is it some other need you have.
It came up in the conversation. Also, I did not called anyone a gear fisherman. I stated that bobber and lead are gear fishing. I'm not calling names here. I also can't be responsable for other peoples sensativity.
The only need here is for basic truthfulness. Like I said, it is what it is. I have seen anglers go through some crazy contortions to bend gear fishing into flyfishing and it baffles me. Hell, I have tried myself, until I stepped back and asked myself why?
Fish how you would like. I'll stand up for your right/ privaledge to do so regardless of gear types. I think that is more important.