Advanced Indicator Rig Instructional Video

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Jason Cotta, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. Charles, it's interesting that you state you don't understand why people get defensive about others calling their fishing "gear fishing", yet when questioned about T-14 you instantly defend your own position on it. Why make the distinction of lead line, versus added lead? Unless of course you do care about whether or not you are labeled a "gear fisherman", in which case maybe you could relate to some people's sensativity just a bit?

  2. Bring your small stuff. I was there yesterday and today and the only guy putting up numbers was tossing a nymph rig with 12-16 naturals and 5mm beads/egg flies. I was fishing from Boggans to Wildcat (above Troy) the whole time. He was on pace to find three a day, and found 5 last Monday. I of course, wanted to swing (I can nymph all winter 15 minutes from home) and I was gifted with a trout and a 3" king.

    Up where I was water is sub 50.

    Lower river looks like it is doing better. Not sure about Schumaker. Snake has been good.

    Have fun, the weather was glorious.
  3. Fished the Ronde four days last week in 60 degree weather and got the biggest fish swinging muddlers and sculpzillas on 400g. Got bored doing that, so switched to October Caddis and the catching never stopped.
    David Dalan likes this.

  4. And now we know, I suck :D
  5. Well, the steelhead weren't playing along so we trout fished. :)
    PT and David Dalan like this.
  6. leaded lines aka shooting heads have a long history in our coastal fly fishing for winter steelhead and fall salmon fishing. there would be no winter steelhead fly fishing history without anglers experimenting with shooting heads and using lead paint to try to sink a swung fly.

    i will readily admit that nymphing from shore successfully requires skill. most anti-nymphing/beading comes is a result of those who just side drift all day and the closest these "fly fishermen" come to casting is moving their rods like a windshield wiper. calling that fly fishing is stretch imo.

    if sinking shooting heads are not fly fishing... i owe the tofino liars club an apology with my long war against calling bucktailing fly fishing ;) .

  7. Pedro: "Hey how am I driving, man?"
    Man Stoner: [looks around] : "I think we're parked, man." (like this thread)
    Randall Clark likes this.
  8. I was having the discussion. The line is somewhere and it's clearly different for many people, hence the distinction. I wasn't defending my position or opinion. I was stating what it was. I actually thought the question you posed was a good and valid one.

    I am a gear fisheman. I have a boat with downriggers. It doesn't get much more gear than that. I sure do wish I was better at it and it wasn't so darned expensive. So no, I don't understand the sensativity one bit.

    Go Sox,
  9. Charles, as long as it's legal I have zero issue with anyone's method of choice. Hell, I bought 2 boats with downriggers this year, and am trying like mad to learn as much as I can. I have dreams of slabs of oily king filling my smoker next summer. For that matter, when you get the downriggers mastered let me know so I can come out and learn from ya! This is my first year really using downriggers and its a whole new world for me.

    I'm just saying that you care on some level what labels people put on your fishing, as proven by the fact that you make the distinction that lead line is still fly fishing. If you didn't care, why make that statement? Why bother with the effort of defending it at all? I mean I think that ultimately you'd admit that adding a chunk of line made out of lead is not exactly at the heart of what fly fishing is all about...But of course neither is the shooting head I've used on the beaches all year, the indicators and tungsten beads I use to fish lakes, lead wrapped around a hook shank before a nymph is tied, etc... I really don't care what you want to call my methods. Ultimately I enjoy fighting fish on a fly rod more than anything else. That was what I noticed the most after getting back in to gear fishing this summer. As much fun as it was trolling for kings/silvers at Sekiu, the fight on the gear rod is just not as fun as on the fly rod. That, to me, is kinda the heart of why I "fly fish". So I don't really care what anyone calls it. But, on some level you do care, else there would be no need to make the distinction between leaded line, and leaded shot.

    Anyhow, really not trying to start anything. And I'm pretty loopy on this cough syrup the doctor gave me, so don't mind me anyway. lol

  10. sinking lines are the same as split shot? what about clear intermediates with no "lead"?

    a lead line (whether a full shooting head or a tip) is an integral part of the weight of the fly line needed for the cast. split shot are not which is a simple difference. the material is not the defining part, but how it is used. foam can be used on poppers, or fished deep using drift gear (corkies, etc) but i bet you wouldn't think of calling a corkie and yarn a fly or someone drift fishing with slinkies and a corky(even if using a fly rod) a fly fisherman.

    as for downriggers.... keep it simple and keep fishing the gear you have (and connect the flasher to the ball) instead of constantly changing gear. have your gear ready so if you need to change anything you can do it quickly and not lose valuable fishing time. and bring coffee for when the bite is off... don't want to run aground when you fall asleep. :D
    PT likes this.
  11. Nick, get a single action reel and long rod for your downrigger fishing. Fish herring or spoons stacked above your flasher (flasher attached to downrigger ball) so it's not attached to your line. Fish plugs with no flasher for kings.
  12. Chris, attaching the flasher to the ball is something I see mentioned more and more and is something I need to learn. Do you just use a snap swivel or whatever and clip it on directly to the ball? How far off the ball do you run it? I'd love to be able to utilize the effectiveness of a flasher without having to fight the damn thing along with the fish.

  13. I am hoping to get better geared up this winter. I picked up a couple outfits to use this summer, but they really aren't that great for downrigger fishing. I have been out of gear fishing for so long. I reckon I should find a good local sporting goods store and go in and spend some time, and some money, figuring out what I want.

    I fished with a guy this summer who had longer, softer rods and they were a hoot. He had Avet reels, which sure did make it easy to keep up with a running king.

  14. I have a hard time seeing the difference between lead added to a fly body for weight, a bead/cone added to the fly for weight, or a split shot added to the tippet for weight. All serve the exact same purpose - to get the FLY down. You have a fly rod/reel, you're casting a fly line, and you're using a fly - sounds like fly fishing to me.
  15. Can you cast your fly at the end of 10 feet of leader, some lead weight and a float with a bait caster? Can you cast your fly at the end of 30 feet of sinking tip fly line plus 10 feet of tippet and no other added weight with a bait caster?
    Irafly likes this.
  16. Not with the amount of lead you'd use on a nymph rig. I'm sure you could cast some of the big heavy cone head streamers people swing with (sculpzilla, etc) on a gear rod with no additional weight needed though.
  17. You missed the point...
  18. I'd be willing to bet I could lob a chunk of T-14 and an intruder with a gear rod easily enough
  19. I'd say Kerry makes a good point though.

    You might be able to fling a cast out there with a nymph rig or t-whatever on a gear rod--but would you be able to cast it effectively for the situation? Would you be able to fish it effectively?

    To me, fly casting=fly fishing. There are limits to how far you can take that, and I would put the line between the two (gear and fly) somewhere around where those limits are.

    Take beach fishing for example. I could tie a jig to look like a pink/white clouser and fish that with a spinning rod. Or I can tie a regular clouser with dumbell eyes (or even something lighter and throw on a couple pieces of splilt shot) and fish that with a fly rod. Both are going to do about the same thing. Both are mention to have a certain action and fish a certain way. But you can't really interchange them effectively without changing some things.

    I kept telling myself I wouldn't enter this. But Kerry struck a chord there, I guess.
    Irafly likes this.
  20. "I kept telling myself I wouldn't enter this."

    Same here. I tried hijacking this thing but that didn't work either. There will be no convincing anyone in either direction. This argument will continue on and on and on.
    David Dalan and Nick Clayton like this.

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