Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Chris DeLeone, Aug 23, 2011.
That is what I have noticed....
Ok, I'm totally confused here..I've read other posts on this line and am assuming it's similar to steve G's scandi "punch" line...but from what I've read there isn't much similarity to a fall favorite, there is a 15' difference in line length..
What weight is your buddly looking for that wants the full line? The heads are where it's at but before they came out I got a full line...ten strips and your in the backing...and the running line is thick and the same color as the head..so you'll need a marker to find the rear taper...but I'll sell that dog cheap if he wants it?
Anyone know how low the grains go on these? I don't see using them on most of my rods, but I might have an application on a switch or shorter spey if they run light enough. A 30' head starts to make sense when the river is only 30' wide in spots...
The concept between both lines are essentially the same by super back loading the taper in a compact head to provide a ton of energy in the turn over, yes the FF 45 is 15' longer but it will essentially behave the same in tight quarters and windy situations.
He wants the 6/7 FF 45.
Chris, your points are fantastic and I fall in line with many of the reasons you have presented. Maybe when I have some skill to speak of a full line will be in my game plan. Until then I find the things that I can do while stripping beneficial and effective.
I've been following this thread for the past day and thought I would clear up a few questions. First, the name... It was originally going to be called the Skagit Float. We were flooded with so many calls from confused fly shops Tim Rajeff decided we needed to change the name. Try naming a fly line sometime, it's not as easy as you think! Next time we should have a contest on Washington Fly Fishing! -That said, I've come to like the name. As for the grain weights... 600gr. to 360gr. in 30 grain increments. Its not on the Rajeff website because we are working on a new website that will launch soon. The line hit fly shops last week and is available.
So where does this line fit into the world of Spey Lines? It's a floating head built for surface and near surface presentations. It works well on rods 13'9 down to 11'. If you like the feel of casting Skagit heads you will like it. If you are tired of fighting a Scandi head in the wind, you will like it. If you fish on rivers with limited backcasting room, you will like it. If you want a switch line that actually loads your rod, you will like it. If you're exclusively a long belly guy, you will hate it. To respond to the comment about stripping, while on the Dean recently, I hooked nine of my 40 some fish for the week on the strip. I don't mind stripping line but if you do, it's not your line. That said, the head length ranges from 32' on a 600gr down to 28' on the 360gr. So a 30' head with a 10' poly Leader (which I recommend) looped to 3' of tippet, plus the rod length gives you over 50' without shooting line. (Not including over-hang) Make no mistake, this line wasn't made for winning distance casting competitions. Not that a good caster can't jack with it... It fishes really well on the rivers I guide and like to fish. -Rivers that are typically windy and have limited back casting room. It does great with big foam skaters as well. If you're in the Scott Howell camp, life just got good. It will also handle a sinking poly leader and a small, unweighted fly for shallower rivers like the John Day. Don't try to rip big weighted intruders unless you pack your football helmet! Marabou tubes, go for it.
As for Skagit or Scandi style casting, it will do either. If you want the snappy "finesse" feel of a Scandi, go 60gr. lighter than your Skagit. Punch the bottom hand and let it rip. If you want a deeper load, go 30gr. lighter than your Skagit. Slow down, get all Ed Wardian and go. Some guys may even like lining full length two-handers equal to there Skagit but it didn't work for me. Most of my rods over 12' feel real groovy with 30 grains lighter than my Skagit Compact. However, Switch rods are a little different. I cast a 7110 switch with the Rage and it felt pretty good with the exact grain weight of my Skagit Switch. -450 gr. was money. Hope this helps and enjoy the line! -Tom Larimer
These lines started shipping the first of this week and will be on the shelves of many shop by this weekend.
Thanks Larimer...Stever G. built me a scandi punch, which sounds very similar but will take conventional tips to 100gr. though 85 works best...it will "punch" through the wind and is very nice to cast as it's neither a scandi or skagit but a betweener..
I've been bitching for awhile and I don't know why others weren't asking for this style line...I don't like cheaters for the hinge, but would prefer a 30+ foot head that can handle decent tips for actual winter fishing....Why I am now using the Tip version of the 45 fall fav. that simon made for me...excellent line and fishes in the wind well and takes 109 gr. tips on my 540 6/7 wt one...but I had to get simon to make it for me so not that readily available..
I'm more interested in why not make the same that will take conventional tips for winter time use as well...You might say there are enough lines for that, i.e. the steelhead scandi, extreme or tactical..but they IMHO are fine with lighter tips and smaller flies...but honestly suck in any strong wind!!! Guys who have told me they don't can't cast so it doesn't matter to them..how bout it???
Well, to be honest -Airflo had a longer head for sink-tip work (That jacked in the wind) at one time and it didn't sell. (Northwest Skagit) It didn't sell because most anglers struggled to cast it well. Actually, the Skagit Compact was born because I started over-lining the heads and cutting them down to the proper grain weight. The shorter heads fit my style of casting better and it worked WAY better for my clients. I'm not talking about new spey casters either. Most of my regulars are very good anglers. A number of folks that had cast my lines urged Tim Rajeff to check out what I was doing. Shortly after, Tim and I started working on the Skagit Compact.
So, to answer your question... The honest answer is there are so few anglers that would prefer a longer head for big sink-tip work it just doesn't pencil out to produce it. The sales of the Skagit Compact over the Northwest Skagit have been dramatic to say the least. Although the Tactical Steelhead does well with light tips, I can understand your frustration. You have developed a casting stroke that works for you and wish someone would make a line for your style. While I can pretty much guarantee we won't be making a longer sink-tip line in the future, we've been working on a solution to your problem. I will tell you it's not a new fly line -and at this point have no idea if the product will ever come to fruition -but I hope it does. That's all I can say. -Stay tuned!
LoL..yeah that doesn't surprise me...I still hoard a couple nw skagits...and that SA one that was 30' the taper wasn't to my liking but I got ya...The compact is a very sweet line and I got a bunch...I just get sick of it after the winter and keep going a bit longer each summer, then winter rolls around and I start bitching again...
I'll probably end up the lonely sole with a chopped carron that takes a tip LOL....
2 handers are kind of the xtreme of fly fishing. Ok, maybe not.
I get it Kerry. Extreme in some ways, but only in a nerdian kind of way. When I go to the Clave, I'm tempted to go all "blue face paint" and make it the Star Trek convention that it is...next year I'm getting the frikkin kilt out and doing her right. Nothing like busting a long one out with breeze kissing your balls. Long belly heaven.
Kudos and respect to Tom for weighing in. I appreciate real feedback on real lines, and of course Airflo has an impeccable reputation for good, and long lasting, lines.
If the line performs as expected, it could be called "The Testosterone Patch" as is appropriate, or whatever. If it's a good line, it could be called the Dick Extender for all I care, I'll rip the label off and fish the mofo.
No disrespect here of course, just good natured discourse on product names, etc.
I'd love to cast one and review it.
much appreciated for the information!! Can't wait to try some!
BTW, no worries about the name, if you name a line "bitching", I will still buy and fish them... with joy! : )
Sounds like a good nymphing line more than anything else.
I think it will be a lot more fun to say, "Listen honey, I'm going down to the CW to jack some Rage" than "Will you please let me go to Lewiston to spey some long belly?"
Tom, Thanks for the info. I'll make sure to swing by the Silver Bow and take a look.
Man, I gotta place for one of those...:thumb:
Where's my bead box anyways-:ray1:
Say what you want about beads and nymphing, this line rocks when your back is against the trees, just as Tom indicated. Need to slow down and compact the casting stroke, but when it's dialed in, it is effective. I often find myself fishing places without much backcasting room and the wind is usually blowing. I tried it today and it's a great line.
Good lord you guys are wack. Do any of you get paid to develop lines for one of the most respected line manufacturers in the game? Did you help change the face of two handed fly fishing by bringing out the compact skagit which is undoubtedly the most wildly popular spey line to ever hit the market? No you didn't. Tuck your tools up. Go fish.
On another note I'm picking one up soon seems like a great compromise between my chopped up scandi lines and my skagit floater combo should be great on some of the local riversooking forward to it, thanks for the info Tom!
Should be interesting comparing this line to the AFS.
As a foot note, just got back from 11 days camping on the Dean. The usual dry line was a 6/7 GPS for waked bugs but the river went out so went to tips for a day or two using a 460 AFS cut back around 4' or so. Launches 110 grain tips very nicley from my 7136 brownie. Just for shits and giggles, I took the sink tips off and went to a 12 then 15 foot floater and back to waked bugs. Handles wind with ease. Something different anyways, with not too much stripping ( didn't need to cast more than around 80' easpecially in the dirty water the fish were at our feet more or less).