Airflo Rage: Not So Clever Or Am I Missing Something?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Loren E, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. Loren E

    Loren E Member

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    I am not a super experienced spey caster so not by any means trying to seem like I'm putting down a spey guru or a product, just confused as to whether it is actually filling a void or whether there was no void in the first place.....

    Tom Larimer, the designer of this head, said he designed it for when he wanted a floating line presentation but with more guts to cast in wind, bigger flies, etc than possible with most scandis. In a writeup on the new Rage line he said ...

    "So why not just put a floating tip on a Skagit and call it good? Good question! The problem is when you cast a Skagit with a sink-tip, most of the sink-tip is in the water during the D-Loop formation. The caster is effectively feeling the load of the Skagit head alone. When you loop on a floating tip, you need to arialize more D-loop. Consequently, you feel the weight of the Skagit plus the 60-some grains in the floating tip. -60 grains is an entire line size! Ever notice your floating tip makes your rod feel mushy? And, its awfully easy to throw a tailing loop. That's because your rod can't handle the added grain weight in the D-loop. The Skagit + floating tip was a band-aid solution to a bigger problem."

    So if your rod will be overloaded with your usual skagit head plus a floating tip, why not just get a lighter skagit head and attach the floating tip to that? To put it into practical terms, if I have a 570 grain skagit head for my 8 weight for fishing T14 in the winter, and a 510 grain skagit head for doing the same on my 7 weight, why not just take the 510 grain head, attach the floating tip to it, and fish that on the 8 weight? Isn't that what the Rage is, just less versatile since with a floating tip you can do dry line work on a heavier rod and with sinking tips you can do dredging work on a lighter rod?

    I realize you might own only an 8 weight with a 570 grain head (just an example), but wouldn't you be better off getting a 510 head and floating tip for your dry line setup incase you end up buying a 7 weight or something along those lines? I guess what I am getting at is, Larimer says "The Skagit + floating tip was a band-aid solution to a bigger problem." And to solve this "bigger problem" he created a new head altogether. I don't get why the simpler and more versatile solution is not just to get a lighter skagit head than you already have and attach the floating tip to that, with a super tapered head like the rio flight for more delicate presentations and tight loops, or a more agressive profile skagit like the airflo compact if you fish somewhere where it is really windy or use big flies....

    Thanks for your thoughts! -Loren
     
  2. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

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    Well you see Loren...the guy's not going to make any money if you do that. :)
     
  3. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    There is nothing new in the 2 handed line world. This stuff has been around for years.
     
  4. shawn k

    shawn k Member

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    Just get a scandi type line and be done with it.
     
  5. Wadecalvin

    Wadecalvin Member

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    Underlining with skagit heads is a great way to go for the reasons you stated. Also you can use it underlined with a sink tip for touch and go casting- The Rage is a very nice casting line and versatile also - they both do a great job - for me it has replaced the scandi compacts- although they are nice too -its mostly a matter of personal preference and fishing scenarios.
     
  6. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

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    Why do you care? Just wondering what it is to you? If you think the rage and a skagit compact plus floating tip are the same there is obviously at least one reason you don't develop fly lines.

    If something doesn't fit your needs then don't buy it. Pretty simple.
     
  7. shawn k

    shawn k Member

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    Did somebody wiz in your wheaties today? LOL
     
  8. Loren E

    Loren E Member

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    Sean, as I thought I made clear in my post's title and initial disclaimer, my intent was to ask the spey community here if there was in fact an advantage that this line provides over the alternative I was thinking of (lighter skagit + floating tip) that I was missing, not to put a product down. It was a sincere question. To answer your question, the reason I care is because a line that performs as the Rage is intended to DOES fit my needs, hence me trying to find out if there is a good reason to buy this line or if I can accomplish the same thing by adding a floating tip to my lighter skagit head and save a chunk of change. Why you have 20 "positive ratings" on this board is a bit beyond me based on your high and mighty attitude in regard to an inquisitive post not meant to offend anyone. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you read it too fast and took my words in the wrong tone.

    Thanks to the rest of you who provided valuable insight into helping me learn more about these nuances of spey lines and find out if I was coming to a logical conclusion or if there was a glaring advantage that I was missing.

    Hey Shawn K, I hope your season finished well!!

    -Loren
     
  9. Sean Beauchamp

    Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

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    Somebody did actually urinate in my wheaties. I spent the last weekend of the season at a wedding instead of on the coast. The rage IS different I personally think it much better IMHO but if you are happy with the skag and have the necessary components to make it work, spend your money on things that catch steelhead not silly floating lines ;) (that was mildly sarcastic btw) Tight lines. Somebody go fishing for me. Since I can't seem to find the time myself.
     
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  10. shawn k

    shawn k Member

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    Loren

    I would buy the rage before you buy the Tactical. The tactical is a good line on certain rods. I have one and it casts great on one of my seven weights but sucks on my other one.
    The rod you have is a skagit rod.
     
  11. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Simply put, everyone wants to spey cast but no one wants to learn how to. Enter a skagit floating line.
     
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  12. kjsteelhead

    kjsteelhead Member

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    I am one of those lousy casters some of the spey superheros love to compare themselves to. Funny thing, the fish don't seem to notice. I cast one of the Rage heads recently on my lowly Echo Solo 6wt. and my measly Beulah switch rod. I loved the way that head cast and turned over smoothly on both rods. This is going to be my new summer and fall head for sure. Try it, see what you think, Loren.
     
  13. shawn k

    shawn k Member

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    nevermind
     
  14. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Wow... Looks like someone really digs the rage :)

    As for the two, I honestly would rather underline a skagit than go with a Rage. The rage is longer which is nice, and does rollout better. But overall if it's too windy for a compact skandi (which does a pretty good job of turning over junk), I feel you might as well go whole hog and just use a hammer. In addition, I've cast the rage and with tips, it plain blows. With the compact skagit, you have a known quantity in terms of tips. As a dryline it's not too bad, but if the situation allows it, I'd much rather toss a short belly spey or scandi as it's less "clunky". But I suppose if you want a single line, the compromises of the Rage do outweight having to keep 2 lines on hand.....
     
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  15. Wadecalvin

    Wadecalvin Member

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    I think this post is the best answer to the op- although I think the Rage does ok with light tips- like 10' of t8 - it was designed for polyleaders- and it works good for that- going hole hog and using a hammer makes perfect sense.
     
  16. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    We only had T11 tips. I was surprised that it didn't do too well with like 10' of it. Seemed to have a 'kick point' with it. Given enough energy, it would accelerate out and lay over, but it was more effort that I thought it should have been. Plus when it did turn over, it was with a bruising 'slap' rather than a gentle layout.
     
  17. Wadecalvin

    Wadecalvin Member

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    James- what would you suggest for a shortbelly spey or long scandi for a dry line- I also feel like the Rage is a tad clunky- feels like it needs to be stretched out.
     
  18. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    How bout an AFS, Calvin?
     
  19. Wadecalvin

    Wadecalvin Member

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    Pan- I have been eyeballing the specs on the AFS lines and thought they might be a decent choice- I also like Airflo prodocts - Dont they still have just the Scandinavian shooting heads, without the "campact" anymore?
     
  20. James Waggoner

    James Waggoner Active Member

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    I think the right answer is the Delta. If too long and want it more in the 45' range, go up one line size then cut down from the back taper and turn it into a head system. Would be an excellent, dryline and there seems to be used delta lines available in the classifieds or ebay often. If that's still too long, Pan's suggestion of the AFS is right on. AS far as scandi lines go, I prefer the Rio AFS to the Airflo Scandi or Scandi Short.

    James
     

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