An important question...

Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by Randy Diefert, Nov 9, 2005.

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  1. Don Johnson

    Don Johnson Duke of Furl

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    William,
    First of all, the content of my posts was not a personal attack on anyone. Addresing the dissemination of misinformation was the extent of my intent; no more, no less. If FT wished to convey a different meaning then it should have been worded so.

    Secondly, I have never posted any of Hywel's flies anywhere. Of the various sites his work is on display, it is the ultimately the responsibility of the web host to post the pics or not. Whether those individuals have nads or not is none of my concern. If my calling his work "masterpieces" is construed as me gushing, then so be it. Last time I checked I still have the right to an opinion. If you don't concur with mine, fine. I like his work, as do others, but not I'm nearly as impressed with his flies as I am with how quickly he has gained the skills necessary to tie as well as he does, which (also, in my opinion) is well above average.

    Lastly, through my response to FT's first post, I feel partially responsible for this thread diverging from the original topic. Sorry.

    Randy, I don't know how Master Tyers obtain their title. I don't even know any that have that title. We ought to start a list of contemporary and historical tyers and debate how each of their respective styles differ.
     
  2. Scott Behn

    Scott Behn Active Member

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    First, this is my opinion and nothing else...

    I personally think this whole "master tyer" is a bunch of bunk. To me the only judge of my flies is and always will be the quarry I'm after...the fish!!!!

    Now with that said, I don't think that the gracious steelie, the coniving cuttie, or even the cheapskate Mr. Whitie gives a rat's butt what materials I have used or how porportioned my ribbing might be. As long as it looks like it belongs in the water column then I assume the fish is going to like it or at the very least it will piss him off which will work for me too.

    If you want to know how to judge a master tyer....become a fish!!!!:rolleyes:

    :cool:
     
  3. inland

    inland Active Member

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    Don,

    As I said his flies are clean. I don't like the gap between the eye and his head and I don't like the up-canted angle/paint brush look of his wings. That is his style and my personal opinion it isn't as appealing to my eye. However his skills are obvious.

    I guess I base my opinions on skill associated to feather wings. From full dress salmon flies to dee strips to speys and even Carrie Stevens style of streamers. Hair wings are a lazy way to dress a steelhead/salmon fly. To name a few...Where does Radencich rate? Veverka? Belarmino Martinez? Shewey and his skill with B. Mallard? Glasso?

    I consider Glasso to be the finest N.A tier (to date) and certainly one of the best ever. He could tie the classics better than just about anybody and developed flies that are now considered classic. That is a master tyer that ties 'Masterpieces'. I suppose it's just a matter of perspective.

    William
     
  4. Scott Behn

    Scott Behn Active Member

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    "Hair wings are a lazy way to dress a steelhead/salmon fly."

    Who are you calling lazy?????

    I don't think fish really care what the wing is made of...at least not as much as it seems people do.

    :beathead:
     
  5. Tim Cottage

    Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

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    William
    I think you are making a very big mistake with the above idea. The mistake that I am refering to is the mistake of short changing yourself. If that is your opinion, you are not allowing yourself to enjoy the work and creativity of some truly masterful fly dressers. Paul Miller, Kevin Perkins, Derl Stovall, Ed Hass, the amazing Warren Duncan and any number of Scandinavian and Icelandic tyers.
    As you have said, it is just a matter of perspective but I think you would be doing yourself a favor by giving these guys a longer, harder look. If you have the Art of Angling Journal, Volume #2, Issue #4, take a look at the article on Warren Duncan and the 16 pages of hair wing flys and tell me again about lazy fly dressing. And I am not just talking about the quantity of flys on these pages but the amount of creativity and consistent quality that simply can not be denied.

    My 3 cents
    TC
     
  6. Monk

    Monk Redneck

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    A master tyer is someone who will be remembered 100 years after their death for their contributions to fly tying. Alec Jackson, Wulff...these are all names that will not just last on the names of their flies, but in nearly every comprehensive book that covers the discipline.
     
  7. inland

    inland Active Member

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    You can call it what you want. (Duncan is a stud hairwing tyer as was Haas) But nonetheless hairwing flies are much easier to tie. Do I like some hairwing patterns? Yes. Do I fish some hairwings? Yes again. Lazy doesn't have to mean bad. Lazy as in a shortcut.

    William
     
  8. Hywel

    Hywel New Member

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    Inland,

    Now that you've generously given your opinion about my flies and style of tying, perhaps you'd be willing to publicly share some of your work.

    Are there websites or publications where one might find examples of your tying?

    Tim,

    You're dead-bang on about the tyers you mentioned, especially Ed Hass and some of the tyers from Scandinavia. Erling Olsen is a personal favorite of mine, and his original patterns and interpretations of some of the more 'classic' hairwings (like the Rat series) are sure worth studying. I'm also fond of Hakar Norling and Mikael Frodin needs no introduction, either!

    Randy,

    Sorry!

    Hywel
     
  9. Tim Cottage

    Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

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    It can only be a shortcut if you are trying to get somewhere else.
    Hairwings are their own endpoint. It is just a different style, no greater or lesser than a full dressed classic feather wing.

    TC
     
  10. FT

    FT Active Member

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    Tim,

    William isn't diagreeing with you. quite the contrary, he agrees wholeheartedly with you that hairwings are their own endpoint and their own style. All he is saying is that it takes a lot less skill to tie a hairwing than to tie a bronze mallard spey wing, dee strip wing, married wing full-dressed classic, or featherwing New England streamer in the fashion of Carrie Stevens, nothing more.

    Monk,

    Perhaps their names will be remembered, and perhaps not. I doubt if many folks alive now remember Reuben (or rube) Wood, or Dan Cahill and if it weren't for the work of Sylvester Nymes, I doubt many would know who Liesenring is. And then there are folks like Ira Gruber, Chief Needebah, and Dr. Henshaw who were all renouned for their tying skills and abilities during their lifetimes; but who are virtually forgotten by the tyers of today.
     
  11. inland

    inland Active Member

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    Scott,

    I haven't and won't pursue any public praise or criticism of my tying, or lack there of, skills. It's unimportant to me. If publicly showing your tying work is important to you...cool beans.

    In between family, work, and fishing I hand machine custom salmon/steelhead reels for spare time fun. For some reason these things just keep selling themselves far faster than I will ever be able to keep up.

    William
     
  12. Daryle Holmstrom

    Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

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    I think this thread could come to end. Enough flames for a very small issue.

    Daryle
     
  13. Chris Scoones

    Chris Scoones Administrator Staff Member

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    Closed by request from Randy. Next time you might read the original post and follow it's direction. It would save a good topic like this from having to be closed.

    Chris
     
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