Angling Morals Rant

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Dan Soltau, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. espja New Member

    Yes, I’m proud to be a fly fisherman, but maybe I don’t understand the definition of elitism, if anyone can join the sport, how can it be elite.

    Do you need special abilities, intellect, wealth, or a distinct attribute to become a participant? :confused:

    In my opinion flyfishing is a personal choice. You can take this choice to any level you want, but it is still is a choice.

    Joe
  2. HauntedByWaters Active Member

    Posts: 2,748
    Bellingham
    Ratings: +104 / 0
    True you are, but you can't fish with bait and call it fly fishing. You can't fish with a spinning reel and call it fly fishing. There are ALOT of prerequisites. It may not be the defition exactly of elitism but you know what I mean right?

    There are a lot of things one must do to call their fishing, "fly fishing". The details vary a lot as to what fly fishing is but it is always a handicap. We are an elite group amongst fishermen in general. I spin fish and fish bait every once in a while so I am not above it, and I think flyfishing has too much erogance and elitism from some; but I think others shouldn't shy away from it too much either.

    I guess that, ultimately, what I am trying to say is that all of our strong opinions and tendancies to argue stem from the fact that we revel in this sport with elite roots and principles; a sport that makes no sense from a numbers standpoint. If we are fishing, why not use the best means to catch the most fish? It doesn't compute.

    I think that we should all be proud of what we do with our fly rods. :beer2: And be proud that we all care enough to take the time to argue these principles over something that can only clearly be labeled: A good pastime. :beer2: At least, this means we have all found something that we are passionate enough about that makes our lives that much better. :beer2:
  3. Matt Burke Active Member

    Posts: 3,649
    Kenmore
    Ratings: +61 / 0
    A lot of us old timers are tired of the bad threads and don’t like to chime in. After years of trying to change people’s opinions, I’ve decided it’s a lot like pissing in the wind. Add into it everyone here is hiding behind his or her screen, looking into an artificial world with artificial values. When we do meet out in the real world, the majority of us are not like our cyber personas. You add in a real voice with inflection, tone and all the other subtle human nuances that we really depend on for communication. Suddenly, you realize that they are human too. Online, the only way to get that is via video, which takes too much bandwidth with today’s technology. Chat rooms are OK, but again you are still faced with the limitations of the written word. I would like to see something like what you can do in Halo 2 where one can hear how really stupid other people can be online, but without the video feed. It would use a hell of a lot less bandwidth. Instead of calling it a chat room, you could call it an actually talk room. Maybe have voice recognition software translate to text. Wouldn’t have to be the entire conversation. Keywords could be used like, ”running line.” The conversations could be placed on a drive for other members to pull up. One could search for subjects like we do now and pull up the audio. While talking to someone in the ATR (actually talk room) I could hit a command that would bring up my standard answer to running line then quickly switch back to a conversation with another brother from the forum. Anyway, you get my drift, like a steelhead.

    On the elitist issue, in any crowd there is always 20% cull. In 20% of people who buy 40-dollar fly rigs from Wal-Mart or 2000-dollar rigs from a fly shop, will suck as human beings. Maybe some of you have had the fortune of running into one of the gods of fishing. The only one’s who deserve the title of “elite” not elitist. Yes, they can be standoffish but my lord, you have to remember how long they have been fishing and putting up with that 20% cull. I would be a rather nondescript, quite fellow too, but I was blessed with a big mouth. Some folks may not understand this and they think, well this guy is a little too snotty for me. Hey dipstick, they earned it! Nothing turns off those guys faster than disrespect. Worse than hoping yer going to get some from yer girlie and she suddenly ruins the bathroom with a smell not unlike the outhouses at Big Eddy. The best way I have found to cope with this is using one rule in life. Now remember, I’m only human and do make mistakes, but I always try to remember to treat people with respect whether they are the second coming of Christ or a total asshole. Unfortunately my big mouth gets in the way.
  4. espja New Member

  5. Dan Soltau New Member

    Posts: 1,272
    Bozeland, MT - Raleigh, NC
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    About 5 years ago, I spent a couple months living with my mom in east Texas. I fished a lot on well known bass lake Lake Fork, which is where 20 of the 25 top state fish have came from, including an 18lber. There is about 300 guides, if not more on the lake, and the fuckin things go damn near 80 mph, which is very intense after say, wade fishing the madison. Anyway, they got as technical, if not more technical than fly fisherman just with lure selection, and then the retrieve was a technically thought out to a science, that even my streamer fishing has nothing on. Fly fishermen have more difficult and higher skill with the actual casting mechanics, no doubt, and when fishing rivers that have complicated currents, keeping a dead drift can be very difficult in some spots. There is little more that involves more skill, maybe fish fighting, because horsing bass into the boat is a very caveman, but effective approach of gettin em in the boat. Other than that, we arent any better than the average bass fisherman. So thinking of fly fishing as an elitist type of fishing is wrong, there is nothing in the world like fly fishing, so a fly fisherman is a fly fisherman, nothing more nothing less. We dont compare to any other type of fisherman, so saying we are better or worse than another type is an untrue statement. But baitfisherman suck, pussies.:cool:
  6. Josh Benjamin Member

    Posts: 988
    duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    The bottom line is that all fisherman need to stick together to cover each other's ass and keep our sport alive, be it fly, gear, bait, whatever . saying flyfisherman are elitists just because they flyfish immediatelly casts a snobby shadow if you ask me... like you're trying to say we are above everyone else.
  7. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,436
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +515 / 0
    :confused:


    I think we all compare when we hope to have fish to fish for in the future regardless of method. :beer2:
  8. Dan Soltau New Member

    Posts: 1,272
    Bozeland, MT - Raleigh, NC
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    What I meant by that is not in an elitist way, but the only thing we have in common with gear and baitfisherman and the place and the fish we target. Hell, after becoming a fly fisherman, I would say that there are much lower people in ffing than in bass fishing...
  9. D3Smartie Active Member

    Posts: 1,987
    WA
    Ratings: +4 / 0
    Well said M.B.
  10. Jon Borcherding New Member

    Posts: 535
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Not too long ago hunters in this state lost the right to hunt bears with bait and the right to hunt bears, cougars and bobcats with hounds. This is not about bear baiting or hound hunting. It's about sticking together as sportsmen against those who wish to end our sport. Now that groups like PETA have won a victory against houndsmen they are stronger, bigger, and better funded and they are pursuing the abolition of other forms of hunting. If you honestly believe that they won't come after the fishing sports then I ask you to reexamine the facts and reconsider your position. The "elitist" waterfowling community didn't give a rat's rectum about helping the houndsmen when they were fighting PETA. Now, in return, they can expect PETA and their ilk to be that much stronger and better funded when the come after bird hunters. If you don't see this comming, you are not paying attention. Try to see the paralell to the angling community. Eventually PETA and the SAO (society for the abolition of angling) will come after our sport. They'll probably start with bait fishermen or halibut fishermen (because they use guns to expedite fish) or maybe the scuba crowd will be the first on thier list. Be assured that they will pick a small group of consumptive sportsmen. A group that they expect to receive little or no support from the rest of us. They will divide and conquer, and some of you are playing right into their hands.
    I've witnessed the filth left behind at rivers by others and been disgusted. I've cleaned up gravel pits where "sportsmen" have made a godawful mess with "target practice" and I've picked plastic bait bags out of my prop after running them over. I get as digusted by the behavior of the slobs as anyone. I just don't think that pointing fingers and further dividing the consumptive sports with elitist attitudes and the holier than thou approach is benefitting any of us, with the possible exception of those who's egos are so patheticaly undernourished that they can only feed their self esteem by stepping on others.
    JonB
  11. Josh Benjamin Member

    Posts: 988
    duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    very well said JonB. kind of what i meant in a longer version.
    if we hope to have this as a resource in the future, we have to stick together as sportsman.
  12. GATOR9 Hey you guys

    Posts: 608
    Yakima, Wa.
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    Hey Bones24

    Do we dare comment?
  13. Coach Duff Banned or Parked

    Posts: 1,272
    Kailua Hawaii
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    I sat back and watched most of us play the PC game and let Dan the man show his ass. Mulligan was the only guy who got it right. Then sounding like an 18 year old Dan goes ahead and kicks himself in the balls immediately after he starts this thread. Dan,I don't know how old you are, but I know you commonly catch fish that would be fish of a lifetime to others, I know you are a real flyfisherman not a guy who flyfishes, I know gearfisherman suck pussies, I know that you drive 11 whole hours in a day to fish Montanna, and I know that you place fisherman on different levels, kind of like a caste system. Due to technical requirements, some fisherman are better than others. At least that is some of the crap that has come off of your keyboard in the last couple of days. Then you have the balls to complain that you were attacked when people questioned or challenged you. Your youth and passion are admirable but the arrogant spoiled insecure punk that keeps beating the good in you to death needs a good old fashioned ass-kicking. Then after you clean yourself up, a bunch of us would probably like to take you fishing. Its okay, we were all once bulletproof, but give yourself a betting chance on this board, which by the way superman, has some of the finest anglers (both fly and gear pussies) on this planet. All puberty does is make showers interesting, it isn't a free pass to manhood junior. :eek: Coach
  14. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,483
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,621 / 0
    Love ya', Coach.
  15. Marty New Member

    Posts: 302
    Heber, Utah
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I have no problem being labeled as an elitist. The term was attached to fly fishing 200 years ago. The reference was a true fly fisherman used flies exclusively. I am an elitist, I do not fish any other type of equipment and always use artificial flies. That is my preference and my choice. Now if you were to call me a snob, that would get my blood boiling. I do not look down on anyone nor do I feel above anyone just because I fish flies with a fly rod and reel. Isn’t it all about the pursuit anyway. Do you think a spoon chucker gets any less satisfaction when he hooks a fish? I think not. There is no right or wrong just perception and values. Let me try to explain. Perception – all bait dunkers are white trash, why, it’s because every where I go I see empty worm cups and beer cans, empty power bait jars and all kind of other trash related to bait fishing. It really bug me to see trash on the river. I value the outdoor experience and don’t want it ruined by someone who does not care about the environment. Now if that perception makes me appear to be an elitist than so be it.
  16. Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Posts: 7,136
    Not sure
    Ratings: +1,225 / 0
    iagree Perfect! Sounds just like a line out of a 'Scrubs' script.

    K
  17. chadk Be the guide...

    Posts: 5,057
    Snohomish, WA.
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    angling morals?

    How do you attach them to the hook??

    [IMG]
  18. Big Tuna Member

    Posts: 1,958
    Wenatchee, Washington
    Ratings: +39 / 0
    These threads are always a trip, albeit a random one. I'm with Nick and Ibn, equal rights for lingcod.
  19. Dan Soltau New Member

    Posts: 1,272
    Bozeland, MT - Raleigh, NC
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    BTW, If you would have read my posts word for word, you would realize I never ever said any type of fisherman is BETTER than other because of how they fish. You misunderstand me, that is why all this has been blown out of porportion. But that is all I have to say, as I could say the best statement ever that settled all of it, and some jackass would misread and think other, and here we go again... I have been thinking for years now how much bs is on the forum, it used to bother me, but the amount of bullshit here is relatvive to how much bullshit there is every where else. You must realize that I know that this is indeed an internet forum, and I have kept that in mind through out this ordeal, so I cant really take it entirely seiously anyway due to the relative irrelevancy of the issue overall.
  20. Kevin J. Burnham Active Member

    Posts: 2,148
    Auburn,Wa.
    Ratings: +140 / 0
    Chad, Can you say March Browns and Morels MMMMMM. I can't wait !!!!