Angling Morals Rant

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Dan Soltau, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. flybill

    flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

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    iagree Word biotch!! :clown:
     
  2. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    It was pointed out to me once that we as fly fishermen can fish "gear & bait" lakes but they can't fish fly fishing only lakes. That may seem elitist to other fishermen. I do enjoy fly fishing only areas and I generally fish catch and release only but I think we must understand why some think we are elitist to others. Yes, anyone can join our group but still by the fact we can fish their waters but they can't fish ours is in a real sense elitist to some degree. Now I don't want the laws to changed but it is something we should be aware of. Also I have been disappointed by the fact that fly fishing and select fishing areas have also become places were people leave their garbage. I always thought that fly fishermen took better care of the enviroment but on a recent visit to Rocky Ford I was disappointed at the cigarette butts and soda cans lying around. Up by the outhouse there was a bunch of piled up garbage. Fly fishermen should do better! However, treating everyone with respect on these threads is important. I haven't seen too much negative name calling, etc. So I'm not complaining.

    KEH
     
  3. espja

    espja New Member

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    Ok, I also think the elitist term was used because of the social class who had the option to flyfish and the private waters they fished. The sport was not made available to the general public....they were to busy breaking their backs in the field for their Lord Masters.

    It's called stereotyping...or assuming....or often called wrong.

    No, it should just make you percieved as normal.

    Yeah Marty, I must be one of those "have nots" with only 24 rods unlike your 30+, but I will always fight against the elitist tag because I know it definately hurts the "perception" of our sport.
    Joe
     
  4. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    Joe,
    We will always be considered elitist, as long as we have special fishing privileges on certain lakes. I'm just an old country boy raised on a dairy farm outside of Walla Walla. But when I let some folks know I fly fish they think, "aah you one of them." That is unless they know me as a person first. It is a label with which we probably always struggle. But, that doesn't bother me too much. I always try to share my knowledge of fly fishing with others. I also share favorite lake location and favorite flies to use because I know that if this great sport is to continue to flourish we need share our knowledge. There is nothing more elitist than telling someone about a great lake to fish but its my secret and I'm not going to tell you. If you find it yourself thats okay but its my secret, now that is elitism.

    KEH
     
  5. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    I know some folks feel this way - but it is not a 'special privilege' to have a 'fly fishing only' lake or river.

    It's like saying the 'non-buoyant' lure restriction is a 'special privilege' in favor of people who like to fish with non-buoyant lures.

    Or saying a bait restriction is a 'special privilege' in favor of those who don't fish bait.

    Or saying a crab pot type restriction is a 'special privilege' in favor of those who use certain types of crab pots.

    Then there are boat\motor restrictions, hook restrictions, location restrictions, seasonal restrictions, harvest restrictions, etc etc.

    My point is, it is simply another type of gear restriction. It has nothing to do with the 'type' or 'class' of person. ANYONE can fish Pass Lake or Rocky Ford. You just have to have the correct type of gear. $10 at a garage sale and you are in business (as my buddy who fished with me at Pass Lake last time can verify…). If a person is too stuck on one way of fishing, that is his problem. In fact, that person sounds kinda like the elitist expecting to fish “his way” when and where he wants…
     
  6. espja

    espja New Member

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    Nicely put Chadk.
     
  7. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    Chad your points are well taken. But, what I was trying to tell you is how others perceive fly fisherman. And, if you tell someone they can't fish a lake with the gear they are familiar with then to them that seems elitist. And to a certain extent I do understand their feelings. We would be upset if some regulations were posted at all general fishing lakes that read "no fly fishing allowed, only gear and bait fishing allowed." Now don't get me wrong I'm all for catch and release and fly fishing only lakes but if you are a good "ole" boy its going to rub you wrong. "I buy a fishing license and they won't let me fish the way I'm use to fishing." I know they can pick up a inexpensive fly rod from a garage sale or Walmart and fly fish also, but by the same token many good "ole" boys don't take it that way. But, so many people have a perception that its difficult, etc. And to a certain extent they have a point we do get some special treatment.

    I just think we need to put ourselves in others shoes and try to understand their reasoning process.

    KEH
     
  8. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    KEH, i've been in their shoes - growing up as a bait\gear fisherman.

    I'm sorry, but the "good 'ole boys" routine just doesn't get much sympathy from me. Many of today's fisheries and environmental issues started under their watch... The "good 'ole boys" are about as elitist as you get at times. Change is a reality that we all have to deal with at some point.

    And the simple fact is, there is no shortage of well stocked lakes just waiting for a 'good 'ole boy' to plop down his lawn chair and cooler, flip out a bobber and worm, and fill up a bucket 'o trout... heck, there is a good chance my kids and I will be sitting next to them :)
     
  9. flybill

    flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

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    Sorry, I just don't see the problem, I just don't care if someone calls me an elitist just because I choose to flyfish, or buy the gear that I choose to buy.

    Most of my gear is on the low to moderate price scale, but I have a lot of it and plan on buying more in the near future. Just buy the best that you can afford at the time you need it and have a good time. That's all that matters in my book! The fish I catch or try to catch don't give a flying F, nor do the people that I get out to fish with.

    Does that mean I won't buy a Meiser, Sage, Burkie, Hardy, whatever's cool and ex$pensive in the future? I don't know, but I wouldn't rule it out at all. I actually have a new Meiser on my "to buy" list, just have to decide if I'm going to buy it finished or build it myself.

    Peace!
    Bill:cool:
     
  10. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    Bill,
    I don't let bother me either. But, just trying to let everyone know how the other side may view things.

    KEH
     
  11. JS

    JS Active Member

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    The only shit that I get for fly fishing exlusivly is from my buddies. So when they harass me for being an "elitist" I just lock myself in my room and cry and tie flies.:rofl:
    Seriously though I have never been looked badly upon due to my fly-fishing, and that is all I do exept for walleye and sturgeon and that is only because I havent figured out how to get them on the fly, people just think I am wierd. Because I am, and so are the rest of us. Who cares what others think just go fish, you will forget all about this thread!
    Peace out home dogs
    skeels
     
  12. flybill

    flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

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    I know, I'm not singling anyone out in this thread. It's just funny that some people are bothered by the label to me. I've been called worse while driving to work in the morning from some A-hole who thinks I've cut him or her off. And I've been known to tell a few others they're #1 with a very specific gesture! :eek:
     
  13. espja

    espja New Member

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    Man, building bridges is tough business. Especially when the other side has a preconcieved notion about you. Don't you think.

    If you don't care, it's cool......no big deal.
    Happy fishing to you.
    Joe
     
  14. Keith Hixson

    Keith Hixson Active Member

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    Skeels

    Walleye on a fly: Go deep with big marabou streamers and leech patterns and if you are on walleye water you should get some walleye. Walleye like to eat little fish so go with little fish patterns deep. In stead of spoons and spinners use streamers.

    Sturgeon on a fly: real difficult bottom feeders that want bait. Probably a waste of time.

    KEH
     
  15. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Sturgeon are catchable on a fly. Keith Robbins, a Seattle saltwater flyfisherman and guide, caught a good sized one in the salt a few years back. They have also been targeted and caught in lower rivers. Not common, but possible. If I remember his guide service was A Spot Tail guide service. He used to own the Romper Room on the bottom of Queen Anne also. You didn't catch any sturgeon there, but if was crowded enough you could surely snag something on your fly. :D :beer2:
     
  16. nomlasder

    nomlasder Active Member

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    The question is not how to present the bait, but who are you targeting?

    Rooms, too funny!
     
  17. Marty

    Marty New Member

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    A big part of fly fishing 30 years ago was understanding the history of the sport. It was almost as important as your knowledge of aquatic insects. I am not sure why it was that way but did help me build a deep appreciation for the traditional aspects of fly fishing. Call me old school but my biggest goal was to build a cane rod. It took me a number of years and a few attempts before I had accomplished that goal. So back when I started elitist was just a label attached to a person that fished flies exclusively, it had nothing to do with money, power or status. I made $7000 the year I became an elitist and was quite proud of my new title. The only problem was I really wanted to be a purist but the desire to catch lots of fish got in my way.

    Espja you are right and the example of the bait dunker was just an example I try not pre judge anyone. Any problem with the label of purist?
     
  18. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    What the heck is wrong with 'fisherman'?
     
  19. Josh Benjamin

    Josh Benjamin Member

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    I agree with Chad. i just think elitist implies that you are a snotty arrogant pr-ck. i can't say i ever heard of just a regular old fly-fisherman referred to as an elitist. if i missed something somewhere, so be it.
    IMO a purist refers to a flyfisherman who will not use anything but dries or won't use indicators, that sort of thing...elitist, to me, would come across as i described above. someone who looks down on everyone who doesn't flyfish, and i would not want to fish with that guy.
     
  20. JS

    JS Active Member

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