Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Shawn Seeger, Mar 10, 2010.
Griswald - good choice on the delete.
Shawn, excellent report, photos and observations. Despite the down sides it seems like it was a great day and good fishing.
Well it certainly was a spectacular weekend fishing in Lake Lenice. As I started out on Saturday morning I headed to the west end. I prefer this on a crowded day on Lake Lenice. It certainly is preferable to combat fishing at the East end of the Lake. I heard another angler say that he had counted 70 boats on the Lake on Saturday. The West End was good to me. The scattered anglers at the West End were sociable and congenial.
I am inclined to say that Shawn's post has a lot to do with perception. When I returned to the truck at the end of the day of fishing on Sunday I was dismayed to hear the frustration from some of my fishing colleagues. There were stories of other fishers that were territorial, loud, boastful and full of hubris. I also heard a story of a fly fisher that seemed to, with intention, entangled one of my friends with his backcast.
Hence, I remind readers of these posts that rudeness may be a perception or a projection.
Although I did not fish with the fishers of which she speaks, I travel and fish with them often. Amongst them, there is greater than a century fly-fishing experience. And, like me, most have encountered unwelcome feelings when plying the waters of the great state of Washington. We have each in our own way struggled to gain and earn the respect of our fly-fishing colleagues (men and women). I am certain that it is my colleagues of whom Shawn speaks because they were the only other women on the lake that I observed that day other than those who were clinging to the pontoon boats of their male significant others. I presume Shawn would prefer that women stayed home prepared to clean and cook his catch.
It is clear that Shawn does not use a radio to communicate with his colleagues. For my friends radio communication is very helpful in angling success. He alludes to an angler who repeated “over” during her communications with another angler. I would like to point out that this is a very effective with a two way radio. The angler of which he speaks does have significant experience in real battle before Lake Lenice and carries the rank of a colonel in the U. S. Army. Shawn may or may not know that the end of the communication is easily cut off without this accoutrement.
To all my male fishing colleagues especially Reda, Scott, Larry, Dan, George, and Rusty that may be reading Shawn's post, I understand that these don't reflect the opinions of all gentlemen anglers.
Shawn, I hope to encounter you on one of the stillwater fisheries sometime this spring. If you find me on a lake and ask what I am fishing with, I will give you the fly, and yield the water to you. If you honor me with a visit to my camp, I’ll will give you a cigar and a wee dram of scotch. And this is because it is truly only grace that trumps hubris.
Tight lines to you sir. Share the waters, it will enrich your experience.
Observations like peple crossing into your back cast or casting pathways, loud converstations and getting unnecessarily close are one person's opinion of not such a good time. I'm one such person, but realize I can't control much about how others behave. Some might think this behavior is fine, that radios being used loud enough for the whole lake to hear, going through someone's casting path or getting up close and personal. I'm not one of those people. I don't expect water to myself at popular places. I would expect people to be courteous despite the level of pressure or congestion. That is just me though, I'm not wired right.
Boom! you rock searun. always funny how people deliberately seek out the most crowded waters, and then complain about the crowd. Can't wait to hear all the Lenore complaints between shoulder to shoulder, strippers and bobbers.
I dont see where Shawn did wrong. He was just pointing out certain things. Others seemed to notice this also. So gripe at everyone that complained.
After reading Cynthia's reply to Shawn there certainly is a difference in perception. I use 2 way radios when bird hunting and fly fishing. On a crowded lake, I keep use to a minimum, like maybe checking on when we should meet for lunch-jabber on a crowded lake takes a lot of the great ambiance away. As to intentional tangling with someone on a backcast, if someone is a stationary angler, all trolling anglers should say at least 50' (and 70' is better) clear on all sides or risk getting a fly in the boat-it is not only a matter of common courtesy, but right of way as well. On a crowded lake, it is probably best to not risk potential conflicts by trolling, simply anchor and cast to fish-the fish move around and there is no best spot in a lake. I re-read Shawn's post several times and I just do not see any denigration of women or women fly fishing. I'm sure if the angler in question had been a male, Shawn would have had the same response. Rick
I agree with Rick 100%
Any reasonable fisher that was on Lenice last Sat or Sun knows the real story.
There were enough loud obnoxious conversations, radio calls, close encounters, and misdemeanor offenses to go around.
Both days there were fleets of p boats monopolizing popular areas of the lake. Perhaps the gal in the float tube was simply trying to move around without having to kick 70 feet out of everyone's way. (Like we all have a 70' backcast - LOL).
However, to target a single individual, including a picture in a public forum is simply unacceptable. The photo should never have been posted. We all need to be reminded of fishing etiquette. To do so in a diplomatic manner without singling out and targeting innocent fishers would be the right thing to do. As much as he must be enjoying this, seems like Shawn is not the one that we should be getting etiquette lessons from.
best to all this season.
Great report Shawn, I was there Friday and Saturday. Luckily I had no close encounters of a float tube kind, or of the reptillian kind. When the fishing is reasonably good, it takes a lot to wreck my day. I did note the noise of others talking at times. It is amazing how well you can hear across the water. But if the crowds turn anyone off, there are other lakes nearby to fish that get fewer boats.
So reasonable AuK9, what is the real story? Etiquette lessons from Shawn? Not sure he offered any ettiquitte lessons. For heavens sake he posted his observations positive and negative. He posted photos taken in a public location and shared them. I was not there but his story reminds me of a few lake days.
BRINGBRINGBRINGBRING (super freaking loud) Any luck yet, over?
No, nothing going on my black trolled bugger, over?
You still using the intermediate, over?
Yeah, gonna switch it up to a pheasant tail with a beadhead, over?
You see the guy in the yellow toon with his rod bent in half, over?
Yeah, looked like he was getting worked over pretty good, over.
Did you see what he caught that 'bow on, over?
Nope, but I'm gonna kick in a bit closer, over?
Why don't you just stay over there and ask me? I can hear your whole converstation from both you and your pals across the lake. I caught that trout on a rubber legged brown bugger fished with a wrist twitch.
Rude bastard has been eaves dropping on our chat, over.
Yeah, what a prick, over.
Did you see his fly, over?
No, but he told me it was a brown rubber legged bugger fished with a wrist twitch, over.
Good to know, switching up to that one now, over.
Okay, I'm gonna go take a piss and warm up my frozen toes, over.
Alright, call me when you are ready to get back at it, over.
Will do, over.
Relaxing as hell, makes me want to go back to my cubicle. By the way, since you are not taking etiquette lessons from Shawn I'm not taking mine from you. (Like we all have a 70' backcast - LOL) With parenthetic statements like that you are basically saying you laugh, like he is lying. Have you seen him cast? I have not, but it is not like he boasted about something unlikely, say casting 125' from a seated position in a pontoon boat (doable, but not by many). I've seen a lot of guys huck 70' of line from a toon, even some do it from a tube. He could have said he was sticking fish every 4.5 minutes and brought in 75 during his outing.
Sorry, guess my hackles are up over the differences in perspective. You can take me off your Christmas Card list. By the way I don't even know Shawn, so don't even go there.
I disagree, the fisher in question who trolled to close, flat out trolled to close, don't try to make excuses for them. Yes there were alot of boats on the water, but there was also ALOT of room on the lake to move around for trollers and trollers did just fine staying away from the anchor crowd. Monopolizing? Really? I love it when one person says the fish move around, and then someone else says that others were monopolizing the popular areas. Is that jealousy? I don't know. But I'm not leaving a producing area of water because someone else has in my opinion a false sense of entitlement.
I will agree though that the picture may have been a bit much.
There is a big difference between perceptions and intentions. If the fisher you speak of thinks that someone purposfully entangled her rod on a backcast I would say that that is her false sense of perception and not the intention of the angler I saw hook her. So her upset behavior might stem from some long line of having to work her way into the sport, but that does not give her the right to percieve rudeness in others.
As for your comments or your friends comments anyway: "There were stories of other fishers that were territorial, loud, boastful and full of hubris." Well I'll percieve that they were talking about me and my friends because they fished next to us pretty much the whole day. The one angler not trolling around moved right next to me after I had already been anchored and fishing awhile. She moved into where I was casting my indicator after I had retrieved it about half the distance back to me. She asked if she was to close and I explained that I was casting to where she was but I told her no problem and she anchored up. With that I just started casting to another area. No biggie I thought. When people fish next to me I find myself wishing for their success as much as my own and I was truly jubilant when she hooked her first fish and because of the sound of her reel I thought it was fighting well so I was again excited for her success. She didn't seemed pleased that I was happy for her so I stopped and kept smiling on the inside. At another point she hooked a fish and I admit I couldn't help myself again and I showed excitement for her and honest disappoint when it came un buttoned shortly into the fight. AT NO point were my friends and I territorial though. We never tried to chase her out we never minded others kicking by, we or at least I happily shared how I was fishing for those also looking for success and as for the troller lady we never really cared we just thought it was funny that she was mad at us when she trolled right behind my buddy and accidentally got caught up in his backcast after a missed fish (I watched the indicator go down myself, just can't help watching other peoples indicators.)
Yes we were loud, ok I was loud but not in an evil or jerky sort of way, just a having fun catching fish sort of way and I will never again apologize for enjoying myself while catching fish. Boastful? If that means happy to share how we were finding success than yep, guilty there as well. Full of hubris? Well again it goes back to your definition of perception or their perceptions I guess, but again I think the fault lies with them not us. If they percieved HUBRIS well what can I say maybe they are just a tad too sensitive when they aren't catching as many fish. Maybe the simple act of us hooking more fish than they did made us arrogant and boastful. Is confidence arrogance. In the end though our fall never came.
I write this to you Searun hoping that you pass on my own intentions to your friends. I'm a friendly fun loving guy who really does not mean to offend anyone but when others percieve offence when none is meant and they don't take the neccesary steps to check for intention than I refuse to feel bad for them.
Thanks Ira, not much else to say....
I apologize for hooking her on my backcast, as Ira said I missed a fish and tried to turn it into a recast. We had been watching her for a couple of hours and was wondering how long it would be before she got hooked. She was kicking right behind lots of people and trolling right into where a lot of people were fishing for about an hour or two before this happened. I wasn't annoyed. I'm pretty tolerant when I fish places like Lenice where there are about 100 other people. I just figured she was probably pretty new to the scene. Most people figure out pretty quickly that you need to be careful when you go behind people. Either give them a wide berth or at least let them know you are back there if you are unable to stay wide. Hookups are still going to happen when the lake is busy, it is just part of the game this time of year. Obviously the fish don't care that much.
I'm a little disappointed to hear of the gender of the offender. Insert "black", "Mexican" or other distinguishing feature and you might see where I'm going with this. I can't defend the troller, but it's because I wasn't there. That said, it IS a bit tough for a woman to become accepted into the community, and after 5 years on the fly, I've still never fished with another woman. I just hate to see someone singled out based on gender. Single them out based on the traffic problems created and leave it at that.
I am fortunate enough to be a disciple/friend of Captain Larry, and he's been great with me and taught me a lot about fishing and given me a few tips on the etiquette, which is not always intuitive. I still dread being on a crowded river because when that happens, I'm gonna make some etiquette mistakes. Following the forum all these years makes it even more confusing.
On radios: people, please keep the chatter down. I use one at work a lot, and hate hearing them on the water--it's super distracting. You can skip the "over", it's just wasted chatter.
On noise carrying on the lake: I was out there several 3rd Weekends in March ago, which is the weekend of Larry's exquisite Bisque Binge. There were a lot of people on the water and I'd never even had a fish on at Lenice, let alone brought one to hand. I spent several minutes struggling with a particularly sizeable Triploid. Just as I was about to haul it in, it twitched off my line, and I LET GO with a string of expletives about a mile long. Later, while eating bisque, I was ID'ed by my white hat. I was firmly (also laughingly) spoken to :ray1: about my colorful language that everyone on the lake had heard, including several kids. So yeah, if you're loud, you will be heard by all.
I'm a little better at catching fish now, and if I lose one, I lose one, c'est la vie. Larry took me out salmon fishing last fall and I got one on my very first day. It was gigantic (to me)--I got it in the net but was so spastic that it got away before the photo op.
See many of you weekend after next--I'll be the girl eating bisque and playing with the Flying Furs. Oh, and hopefully catching boatloads of fish.:thumb:
Chronnie color/size? I want to make sure I have what I need or tie them if I don't. Thx.
Black and red chrionimds in size 12 to 18 should get em done. Put em about a foot off the bottom and your golden. Oh also run two flies about 18 inches apart.
Is that a general answer or actually what is hitting right now?
I was there last weekend also. The lake was crowded, but I was expecting that, so it didn't get to me. I only landed one fish, fell out of my tube into the water once, almost lost a fin due to a broken strap, dropped my ciggarretes and lighter into the water and I met two fellows in the parking lot that were pretty cool to yack with. I heard the radios, cell phones, and other stuff, but I really didn't care, they were there for the same reason as everyone else. Just relax, why stress when your out fishing?.
black w red rib seemed effective last weekend. #18 was best, but they took #14 and #16. I heard from another fisher that a pumped fish had tiny bloodworms.
I did the best on #14 chromies.
I'm not trying to be a smartass here, I'm just genuinely puzzled by this statement:
If that were a salmon or steelhead river, y'all would be totally pissed if someone parked in the best run and didn't move to yield the spot to the next person. But not on a lake? My experience is that lake fish do tend to school up in one spot and stay there all day (certainly more so than anadromous fishes running up the river), so the idea that you should get to stake out the hot spot seems counterintuitive.
I'm just curious about that concept. I personally just avoid crowded fishing areas like the plague...