Another Full Lot Report and Observations

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Shawn Seeger, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. Sageman

    Sageman Member

    Actually, I don't expect anybody to give up their water anywhere if they find something that works. If you do the work to figure out where the fish are and what they are biting on, you should be able to stay and fish them. Rule #1 of fishing: NEVER leave biting fish.
  2. Tony

    Tony Tony

    I've resisted posting on this for a few days just enjoying the show but now I guess I'll throw in, I find it funny that the chriono guys post up locking off entire areas of lakes from other fishers and then expect you to not only to respect the entire area in front of them but also another additional 70' behind them and I'm also guessing they also are laying claim the entire 70' radius around them to boot, I'm sorry but to me this seems sort of selfish and just alittle foolish I bobber fish sometimes and I do ask you not to go right into where my line is but if you wish to troll by behind me and are considerate enough to give me a heads up so if this happens when I'm going to recast I don't hit or hook you no problem I can wait for you to pass and if I'm in a productive area and you want to post up near me and fish there also,no problem, there are plenty of fish for everyone in fact most of the time this is a good way to meet others find new patterns or just maybe get a heads up on whats working.
    Sure there are some that will just plow through rudely but for the most part I think people are considerate and try to get along, this being said I've found all too often its the bobber guys that can be rude, you the ones they race down to the lake and race across to the most productive fishing areas in their opinion and then attempt to freeze everyone else out of the area yeah you know who you are the guys with the big secret flys that can only be spoken about in code and make faces and frowns everytime people get anywhere near your private part of the lake and then have the balls to get angry if someone happens to catch one of your fish swimming around in your private area cause only you are allowed to catch those fish, perhaps I'll get flamed for this but if I'm working down the shoreline casting to the banks and you are posted up I'll give you a shout out and go behind you but I'm not going to stop fishing just because you have some idea you own that area and if you are actually foolish enough to show your ire by backcasting at me expect me to cast right back at ya and if you actually hit me expect to lose your shit cause I'm going to take it, most of what I've read on this post is about etiquette and what everybody else should do for you, hey what about you, I find it hard to believe someone would have the gall to post what they consider to be the hard and fast rules along with pictures and descriptions of who you think the offenders are I also find it hard to believe that there are so many on this site that have chimed in in support of your opinions, this is rude man just rude.
  3. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

    gotta agree with the above. way too many guys doing this. makes it hard to be a flyfisherman. i didn't used to have to explain that i'm not a stereo typical elitist jerk, but these day i do, when sharing the water with my brothers and sisters in rods.
  4. Shawn Seeger

    Shawn Seeger (aka. wabowhunter)

    Ok, so I was busy for a few days. But now I would like to say a couple more things.

    First, to the person that I posted the picture of, I am sorry. And I truly mean that. I will now share a picture of myself so as to not come off as being one sided. I also, have had my full name as my screen name every since the call for “using your name, as your screen name” a few years ago.

    View attachment 29948

    Second, I wasn’t trying to force anybody to live by “my” rules. All I was trying to do was get people to think about “treat others as you want to be treated”.

    Now, as for do I expect others to give me all the water, No is the answer. Do, I expect that if I am anchored to have all 70’ in all directions from my boat, No is the answer. As to do I want women to stay at home, NO is the answer (because, I have over the last 15 years only kept 1 fish from this lake!). I am glad to share the water with either gender, and don’t expect or need anybody to do cooking or cleaning for me. Do I use a radio to communicate with other, YES, my fishing partners at a very low volume, including one with hearing aids. (And just so you know one of them uses a radio for communications in the daily job at an airport with airplanes, and that person doesn’t say “over” to me at the end of every broadcast. The other way to effectively end a transmission is to continue to hold the mic button down when you are finished speaking for about 1 second, that way your companions can’t walk over you) To the Colonel in U.S. Army (as well as all other) THANK YOU for your service to our country to protect our rights and freedoms (today and everyday)! I am I complaining about the crowded water, No.

    My wife and I talked about this after I came home. She asked me several questions, “Would you have said something or post the same about a guy?”, yes was my answer, “Why didn’t you say something to the woman?, because women alone or out in the woods already have enough struggles with acceptance or feeling threatened, “Would I (my wife) have said something to her as a woman?”, yes because I have seen you say something in like situations.

    Third, I have trolled, anchored, and waded many waters. And I don’t expect or feel entitled to the water I am in/over. But I would hope that if I am standing, anchored or trolling that someone would not expect me to give way to them just because they come along? Because I would not expect them to give up a hole just because I come along.

    Forth, during the mornings of both days (and afternoons) close to where I was anchored up there were several guys that were trolling in pontoon boats behind be (probably 200 feet – the yellow zone on image) that were doing far better on catching fish than I was anchored. And so it came off as funny or ironic that the person that was trolling was doing so in between boats and having less luck, just my opinion. (Because one of these guys, older green outcast, talked to me at the get out and asked why was she trolling between all you guys, I was doing better?)

    Fifth, it is a funny thing about making an observation or a situation and a person. As science has proven in crime observation. If 10 people witness something, you most likely will get 10 different stories. As for calling out
    if I were to just have said a person was trolling to close to me, everybody that was trolling could just brush it off and say “Oh, he must have been talking about someone else.” Allison, 18-14 snowcone, with red but. Look at my fly box on another posting and you can see my fly’s.

    Sixth, Northern, I don’t know what rivers you fish, but I have fished numours and have NEVER watch a fisherperson give up a productive hole for a guy that just comes in or drifts down. As far as lakes/Stillwater, fish cruise all the time, looking for food. Yes they may stay in a general area, but they don’t just find a spot and then sit on the bottom waiting for food.

    Seventh, I am not complaining about someone trolling through an area and catching fish. What I was trying to describe was a situation where there were several people anchored up. (and since there was very little to no wind, people could cast around the area they were anchored, instead of just down wind) But a person (observed by and complained by many) as to trolling just back and forth where the people were anchored and catching fish. It seemed to be a “I don’t care what you are doing” attitude. I actually had a guy leave an area because of this same troller, and as this person passed me (whom I didn’t know) look right at me and say “What the HELL is her problem?!” and he then left the area completely in disgust. So, this observation was not just mine. Tony/Gearhead, the description of working down a shoreline, giving a shout out, and then keep going is NOT what was happening this day. This person trolled into the boats, then just started trolling up and backs into the boats. This was not a troll through.

    And lastly… there was talk about the lake having about 70 boats/people on the water. Here is a picture of Lenice, with approximately 70 red dots (which are about the size of the outhouse roof in the photo), this is to show that 70 people could be anchored on this lake and still have a LOT of open water! Also this lake shows the deepest part of the lake in blue, generally when trolling it is weighted fly’s or sink/sinktip line. And the yellow area shows where the pontoon guys were doing really good at trolling far behind the anchored guys. And if you look at the zoomed up shot you will see a little white line race track type area where the troller in question came and started going in and out.

    View attachment 29946 View attachment 29947

    Now, if you ask me what I am using I will tell you, the fly, the depth everything. I have on numerous occasions on this lake give them to people right out of my box. I will even sit down and show you how to tie them if you want.

    Cynthia, I also would be glad to share a dram with you, and share about the fishing of the day (at camp), although I will pass on the cigar since I don’t care for them (but will not stop you or pass judgment on you for wanting or smoking one, I would just stand up wind). So, please again apologize to your friend for me.

  5. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

    seem abit defensive wanna talk about it :)
  6. cabezon

    cabezon Sculpin Enterprises

    It is interesting that the social convention here in the NW is that the first person to a site can occupy a spot all day. While there may be trout scattered throughout a lake, they can often pod up on specific spots. Lenore is notorious for tight pods of fish. I watched two guys in pontoons catch 30+ Lahontans each in a few hours because they were anchored up on the school. I was just outside their water and picked up a few fish. Similarly, I've been on the Cascade R. for coho and watched three guys in the sweet spot catch limits of coho and then stay in the same spot catching and releasing for hours. If you weren't in that spot you weren't catching much of anything.

    In Maine, the tradition when fishing for searun Atlantics at the best-known runs was to rotate. You would put your rod in a rod holder to indicate your position in the line-up and then have your shot at flogging the water. It was the typical cast, retrieve, and step down fishing approach. When you reached the end of the run, you put your rod back in the holder and waited for your chance to roll around again.

    At combat fisheries (Cowlitz, Satsop, etc.), there have been angry words and worse when someone takes another's spot while that person was fighting / landing a fish and then wanted back in.

    Kind of mirrors pre-school: to share or not.

  7. Shawn Seeger

    Shawn Seeger (aka. wabowhunter)

    Nope no need to talk, based on your screen name you and I probably have more in common than you know, and I am not now nor ever be a elitist 9any gear that is legal) or a fish bigot for that mater (any species). I just want to make sure the picture of the events and my view was clear.

    Also, as far as location goes, it is interesting, I moved several times though out each day, and each was productive. Maybe one more than another, but they were all productive.

    And in a couple of weeks each will be different.
  8. Allison

    Allison Banned or Parked

    Thanks, took a look and I should be good to go.
  9. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

    Sorry Shawn, was abit provocative i guess looking at it now, would like to retract it. just thought it was funny at the time.
  10. LJ

    LJ Low Tech Lo

    Now that tempers appear to have calmed a bit it’s time for me, the subject of most of the criticism, to have my say. I appreciate all who spoke up in support or come to my defense – fishing under such crowded conditions is a challenge especially when everyone is expecting the stellar fishing reported on the opening few days.
    Let me say, first, that I troll not because I don’t know how to cast. I find it my most productive and satisfying way to fish. I can’t sit still for hours and stare at an indicator.
    As for ‘sharing’ the water, I must say you guys were monopolizing one of the most productive pockets of fish on the lake. I had fished that pocket of cruisers with much success on the opening Monday & Tuesday and hoped to try that section again on the weekend in question. On Saturday a fellow in a pram parked himself directly in the center of the area for the entire day, casting about in all directions. I spent an hour or so trolling in and out of the mouth of the channel always on the opposite side of where he was bobber fishing. I returned to the area several times during the day fishing in the same manner. He never objected.
    On Sunday, I decided to get on the water earlier (8:30) hoping to get back into the same area but there were already a few boats parked there but back a bit further than the day before. I launched and had kicked about ¾ of the way across the lake when two guys who had launched just after me came barreling past in pontoon boats and took up the other open areas. I then came through the parked boats into the mouth of the channel and from there cast into the same general area but from the opposite direction, into the same pocket of cruising fish. I never fished over anyone’s lines. I occasionally trolled between boats when someone was netting a fish or re-rigging their set-up. You made it sounded like I did this constantly. If anyone had an issue with this you could have said so – no one did. Later in the day I returned and did pretty much the same thing. I spent less than an hour in ‘your space’ then and finally left because I couldn’t stand the incessant chatter of one of the fishers. It was on my way out – yes, between and behind the boats, because it was the shortest route for someone under foot power – that Sageman wrapped his line around my spare rod, in his backcast. Yes I was annoyed because as you folks have said, you knew I was back there. I was the one who came over to you so you could get untangled and you never even said a word to me – no sorry, no thanks nor complaints about my ‘problem behavior’. So I appreciate your apology in hindsight. You were all still parked in that pocket when I left the lake around 3:30.
    If you or anyone was having a problem with my fishing, you could have come and talked with me about it. Posting my photo was inexcusable – you never would have posted another guy’s photo. Thank your wife for me Shawn and I accept your apology. She must understand the challenge women face in a male dominated sport. I frequently fish and camp alone and I felt as though you placed a big target on my back. I am not a newbie and am well know at Lenice and other area lakes. I have fished with and alongside many of you over the years and believe I am a courteous and respected member of the flyfishing community. If I caused you any problems on the lake I certainly apologize and thank those of you who countered with more reasonable responses to this series of posts. I’ll be there again throughout the season and expect you to treat me as you would any other fisherman and I’ll do the same.

  11. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

    I still don't get it.
    Why would you all drive all the way over to the dry side to fish a weedy low land desert pond?
    Is it the weather? Sunny warm, cloudless skies?
    I know that there a many lakes that have just as nice of fish, cleaner water, timbered shore lines on the west side of the mountains.
    I think I know why, but please tell me your reasons.
    Thanks in advance.
    Nice explanation LJ.
  12. Scott Salzer

    Scott Salzer previously micro brew


    The grass is always greener.......

  13. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member


    I'm sorry you wanted us to tell you your behavior was objectionable. Well I'll make sure to do so next time. In return I would like you to let me know that my "incessant chatter" bothered you. I'm not likely to change anything about that but based on your reply, you don't believe you did anything wrong so I doubt talking to you about your behavior would have done any good either.

    As for Sageman hooking up with you, he did say he was sorry almost immediately, I guess you were to angry to hear. What I never heard though was an apology from you for being behind him. I don't think at that moment he "knew" you were behind him. Even if he did I don't think he would have not set the hook on the fish that took his indicator under just in case he did hook up and his back cast might accidently hook your rod. It was an accident and given that you were not anchored and he was and you were behind him not the other way it seems to make sense that you would move over to him. You make it sound like that was some gigantic deal on your part to move over after the rods were hooked up. Sageman did nothing wrong and I'm not sure why you still think he did. Are you ready to apologize to him yet?

    With that I don't believe we were bothered, in fact I know that we were friendly (see "incessant chatter" not sure how you saw this as anything but friendly), we were just curious and after a day at Lenore there was nothing about your behavior that bothered me. The only thing that bothed me was your reaction and your friends reaction to me and to Sageman after he accidently hooked you. From my perspective, we were friendly having fun and not minding what others considered bad form. For that we get treated with contempt and rudeness. Intentions versus perceptions again.


    FYI this has nothing to do with the fact that you are a woman. One of my favorite fishing partners is a woman and I'm just as ticked about what I percieved to be rude behavior from men.
  14. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

    You seek out crowds, based on your greed to catch fish. its normal, nothing wrong with that. first your at Lenore, then your at this lake, so its obvious. we all do it, so stop bitching about everybody not fishing your way. as a flyfish you always need to be aware of whats behind you. its your responsibility to do this, there is no excuse. i don't accept bullying on crowded waters. come off your high tower.

    by the way, i have a Black Friend, so that means i'm not racist right. give me a break.
  15. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member


    I'm sorry, no high towers here I'm not sure what you read but I never ever ever bullied nor did I judge others for how they were fishing. Just out of curiosity, what in my writing made you feel like I bullied another fisher? What in my writing made you feel that I disagreed with the way that someone fished?

    So gearhead if I silently work my way behind you while you are fishing, regardless of why I silently worked my way behind you, you should be aware of me, not set your hook on a fish just in case I might be behind you and you miss the fish and hook me not knowing I was originally there. Is this really your logic? Or do you check behind you before you set the hook each time. If so you have incredible self control, and I must bow down to you because there is no way I could not set the hook on a down indicator unless the rod is simply not in my hand, which as any bobber fisher knows happens more often than not.

    Yes, I like to catch fish. In fact I like to catch lots of fish and I also want other people to catch fish as well. I do not see this as greed. Do you not like to catch fish? I'm sorry but after 35 years of fishing I still have not "evolved" into one of those truly enlightened individuals who has managed to not care about catching fish when they go fishing. I honestly just want to catch fish, but as I posted earlier I enjoy it just as much when others around me are catching fish as well. So much so that I have a hard time containing my glee. If given the choice between catching lots of fish but noone else is catching fish and catching a few fish and everyone else is catching a few fish, I will choose the latter everytime.

    Again I never bullied I did the exact opposite in this situation I welcomed and offered up everything I was doing to be successfull. I was friendly and so were my friends. How this was miss perceived I don't know. I'm sorry it was though, trust me.

    As for the black friend comment, again I'm not sure what you read but it was indicated that this situation that started all of this might have something to do with the fact that the person in question was a woman. I was simply stating that sexism played no roll and that I did not appreciate the innuendo. So with all due respect, give me a break.

  16. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

    maybe you should stop paying so much attention to my words and read yours. and yes i am aware of whats around me when i fish, especially crowded waters, for safetey, but i will also admit greed too, for i, as i suspect you as well, are always on the lookout for claimjumpers, and frankly, i don't think that back cast was an accident at all, its clear reading between the lines what happened here, for i am guilty of it, atleast a time or two myself,although it was more than twenty years ago. the o'l "hey that person is too close, watch this," routine. i'm a vet brutal combat fisheries such as blue creek and others as far back as the 80's.
    as far as catching fish, did ya see my name, i like it, and if everybody else is catching and i'm not i cry and whine. but i,m never a jerk. i'm sorry if you don't get the black friend comparison with regards to you referencing that your not a sexist because you have a female fisher friend, then i can't help you.
  17. Griswald

    Griswald a.k.a. Griswald


    Here is the bottom line. And why I am over with Lenice. Too many people.

    1. If you are around someone fishing (anchored or otherwise) is it so flippin hard to just say hello or anything to alert the caster to your presence? I mean come on.

    2. If you are fishing, can you just (if you foul hook or come close to a cast just) say, wow, sorry!?

    3. Stillwater fishing is different than moving water. Some folks might not realize it, but my interpretation is that there is ALOT of lake around, so if someone wants to sit in the same spot all day---have at it. Get over yourself. If you can't find fish in other parts of the lake, maybe it is not the lake for you to fish? (insert elitist jab here)

    4. Whining. Really? Most of these people, if you ran into them in a pub after fishing all day, and saw they (by their appearance) were fishing that day you would probably enjoy talking to, or hell maybe even make friends with. Why does every
    3rd post here have to degenerate into a left/right wing or racist/sexist, elitest/dork argument? (Yes folks that was me whining)

    5. It is about the fishing. That is why I do it. To get away, or sometimes to connect. With nature, with people with myself. If I can not enjoy myself I either: Move on, address it and move on, or ignore it. What is so difficult about that?

  18. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

    Cold beer, popcorn!!!
    Get your cold beer & popcorn, here.
    And yes the grass is greener, getting greener everyday.
  19. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    I think we need another rockslide on the pass
  20. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    I'm buying Griswald a beer!:beer1: Can't we all just get along? I'm going on a fishing trip tomorrow and hopefully there will be some chatter among friends and GULP strangers. Further hoping that some of those strangers will become friends.