Another Spey vs. Single hand rod thread...

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Peter Pancho, Jul 26, 2003.

  1. Peter Pancho

    Peter Pancho Active Member

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    Hello. I was wondering why I see more BIG fish caught with Spey rods as opposed to single handed rods? The advantage seems to lean more toward the Spey due to:

    1)Casts further and few false casts ie; 80-100ft on 1 roll cast.
    2)Awesome line and fly control,mending,etc. Presentation at its best.

    These two factors lead me to believe one thing: MORE HOOKUPS & BIG FISH!
    I'm really curious if any of you Flyguys out there made the switch from Single to Spey and haven't looked back. The only drawback I can see to Spey fishing is its lack of sensitivity when you have any size fish on compared to a single hand rod:more adrenaline up your arm to your heart!
    Is there any place where I can rent or test Quality Spey rods to "Feel" what I've been missing and to make sure I really want to make this an option?
    My main Steelhead rig right now is a 10' 2pc 7w G.Loomis GLX with a Lamson Litespeed 3.

    Opinions would be gladly appreciated!

    Thanks! Peter ><>

    "Follow Me and I will make you fishers of Men" Matthew 4:19
     
  2. TomB

    TomB Active Member

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    I will only contribute my two cents for what they are worth, but I think it depends on the water, the type of terminal gear and the skill of the fisherman. A good single handed caster doesnt use false casts either, and manipulates the line with the best of them, very rarely do you need to cast farther than 60 feet to catch a fish anyway, and as you said, single-0handers are more sensitive. It is a personal preference thing as well as a practical thing depending on when and where you fish.
    -tomb
     
  3. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    I've used both. I think it's a mixture. Tom is right, but also is wrong too. He's right, someone who's very skilled can almost do similar with a one hander as a two. But the amount of backcast to shoot out the line with a spey and to recast is much easier then a one hander. Especially if you're using a longer bellied spey line. Plus, it's easier to mend and also makes it easier to get a longer drift in as well. I've found that even some VERY good one hand fly anglers I know have upped their catch rate using the two hander. But the big DRAWBACK as well is the rod is SOOOOOOOO long. Man, I had a bear of a time trying to land my fish on my old 9140. Can't tail them properly, try not to beach a native on the beach. Just a pain.

    Just a "new" tool for us here (old tool in the old world). Has it's place, like Tom says. But not needed everywhere. I have quite a few places my smaller one handers work just fine. But, I will say, I do love the way they rollcast MUCH more then a one hander does with a DT. That is one key, especially since I normally run a DT for my summerrun fishing usually. But I do agree with Tom, they aren't needed in all situations. But a nice tool to learn.
     
  4. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Spey rods are a nice way to go but you just don't put down your single hander and pick up a spey rod and go out fishing. This is something that takes a little getting used to. But it's just like the single hander it takes lots of practice to get it right.

    I heard the talk of Lamiglas having a rod under $200.00. And from what I gathered that they are nice rods. Sure would like to see one.

    Jim
     
  5. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    Lamiglass

    Currently, their Traditional Spey's run around $400.00 and the blanks around $220.00...


    Roper,

    Good things come to those who wade...
     
  6. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Yup, you're right on both above Jim. I know I was gonna toss the stupid rod away. Figured it was a simple "roll cast" I used on a one hander. DEAD WRONG. Still was getting it down once my shoulder/neck went out on me. Once you get the cast down, that baby flies with very little effort. But have to REALLY put away all your "one hander" mentality. Less is more with the spey. I know I was loading and pushing too hard. So line would go limp 20' out. I helped out the learning curve (besides videos) was to throw with my opposite arm. The ackwardness helps slow you down. Was outcasting my right arm 10/1. Once I'm healed up, will actually get lessons with the spey to help me out. Have a few friends I'll probably go to for the help.

    Now, onto the Lami. My friend from another board has tested these things out. If they go into production, should be in the $200 range, if not less. And guess they are CANNONS. He was thoroughly shocked when he tested them out. Was a red blanked rod (thought he was talking about the blue blanked speys). But have to work out some component problems I guess. Guess the high end guides they were using cost more then the rest of the rod to build. LOL. So gonna use the standard guides you'd see on speys. Would love to see it. Will need to restock my speys once I'm back to work.
     
  7. miyawaki

    miyawaki Active Member

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    Speyrods

    If you live near Carnation, I would suggest you go see Aaron Reimer at River Run Angler. He is a frequent contributor to this bulletin board and specializes in all things spey. The best thing is that he has rods strung and ready to test down the block on the Snoqualmie.

    Leland
     
  8. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Roper

    Read my post below. Looks like we were typing at same time. LOL. Lami has the one's Jim is talking about in the works. Has been tested by a friend of mine already. Just hammering some things out. Once I find out more I'll let everyone know.
     
  9. sinktip

    sinktip Guest

    Put the single hander away 5 or 6 years ago and have never been back.

    Speys are not for everyone though and for many they are not going to yield even as many fish as the single hander. Most spey fishers overcast because they can. Especially for winter fish, this is the kiss of death. Once you get comfortable enough with your casting that you don't feel the need to throw 120' every cast, then you can concentrate on fishing.

    As for the knock on the trouble landing fish with a spey, I don't buy it. I have a quiver of speys from 13' sevens to a 15 1/2' 10-11 and landing fish on them is not a problem and no, the fish doesn't ever touch the beach. It does require a diff. approach but once you get the hang of it, it is every bit as easy as with a single handed rod and you will lose less fish on the short line as the rod has more give.

    I second the suggestion to give Aaron's shop a look. He carries some top notch rods (quality wise and some at a great price as well) and has a try rack where you can cast a number of setups and see what fits you. While you are there, I suggest trying out the CND rods. They are great rods and the Expert series run well under $300.

    Sinktip
     
  10. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Sinktip

    I'd love to see your tecnique on landing them. I've used long noodle rods for years (from about 82-96') in the 10-13' range. Not anyone I knew, nor guys I know today can show me a good tech for landing one without letting them hit the bar and chasing them. Would love to check it out. I don't run noodle rods anymore (just too much of a pain and tax the fish to death), but am running the speys (which are longer then my noodle rods). But I've had alot of problems on my tight area spots landing one by hand. There are a few spots on the OP I fish that are high walled banks and just small peninsulas sticking out I fish from. No room to move. Could easily land with my baitcasters, but had no way to position the rod without either dropping it and tugging in the line by hand or over stressing the rod into it's "breaking zone". Once I'm healed up, may have to take you on a trip down the Hoh or Duc and watch you work. ;) I can use every bit of help with the speys. Almost lost a 19# buck on the upper Hoh because I couldn't figure out how to bank damned thing without exhausting it to death. But got him up and released (but got myself wet in the process). LOL
     
  11. sinktip

    sinktip Guest

    Sinktip

    Jerry,

    Do a search on the other site and you will find a good discusion of the technique. Kush uses almost the same method I do and he did a great job of describing it. I think there was also some minor variations that some of the old time long rodders posted as well.

    sinktip
     
  12. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Sinktip

    Thanks. I'll have to run over there. For a second was trying to figure which site. But forgot you're only over on Juro's, not the one I'm running. I'll have to check it out. THanks again.

    LOL Maybe I should just interogate Fred. He's hanging out at my site mostly now anyways. LOL.
     
  13. Nooksack Mac

    Nooksack Mac Active Member

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    Sinktip

    Peter:

    As someone who started using spey tackle eight years ago (late in a 42-year fly fishing career), I'd never say that I "switched, and never looked back." I still use single-hand fly rods frequently. For me, the dividing line is a stream of more than approx. 50 feet average width. If I were going to the North Stilly tomorrow (and I would, given even one encouraging fishing report), I'd take both kinds along. I'd use one of my summer spey rods (from 12.5' to 14') below Deer Creek, and a 6- or 7-weight single-hander above there.
    You briefly touched on the spey rod's advantages in your opening (I'd add the ability to propel flies of any size, to mend line into the ajoining Zip Code, and to cast comfortably all day.) But that's like talking about riding a Harley down a desert highway in terms of its fuel economy.
    Spey fishing has been the most fun I've ever had with a fly rod. For better or worse, it's dangerously close to being a cult: the growing but still limited host of enthusiastic participants; the discipline and delights of absorbing its mysteries, the spiritual peace that comes from practicing its rituals -- and the inexorable drain on one's bank account.
    The sport has a wonderfully active and informative web site: www.flyfishingforum.com/flytalk. You get fresh daily doses of information and positive reinforcement from the Spey Clave letters and Dana Sturm's Spey Pages.
    A few thoughts: spey rods are dependent on being matched with a proper line, and that's a lot trickier than fitting a single-hander. The advertised line sizes are merely a starting point. The right line will turn your old broad into your favorite new girlfriend. Few spey casters can cast 120 feet (or need to); they do cast 80 feet all day without the bursitis involved with double-hauling a single hander. There have been a number of commercially sponsored or privately invoked gatherings of spey casters in western WA in the last year or two, and there's the Big One: the Spey Clave on the Sandy River (east of Portland, OR) in May for the last three years, where you can try new tackle, make new friends, and get free instruction from some of the best spey casters in the world.
     
  14. ChrisC

    ChrisC Active Member

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    Sinktip

    Nooksack hit the nail on the head--depends on the water you are fishing. To the extent you want to limit yourself to fishing bigger water, then one could do away with their single handed rod. As we all know, there are plenty of steelhead water up and down the cost where even a single handed rod can cast past the prime water.
     
  15. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Sinktip

    Nice reply with a lot of great information.

    I don't let the size of the river determine if I use a spey or not but instead the style I wish to fish. If I am doing the wet fly swing with sink tips I use the two hander which is the style I fish most for steelhead. If I wish to fish a dry with a floating line I use a single hander. My reasons are, and you mentioned it in your post Nooksack, while fishing heavy sinktips nothing beats a two hander for saving your arm and hucking it out there 80 plus feet over and over again but for throwing a dry with precision I believe a single hand rod is the the better tool.
     
  16. Luv2Spey

    Luv2Spey Member

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    A few quick thoughts:

    First, I am a strong advocate of spey casting, but not because the technique necessarily catches more fish (which I believe it does, if only because one can cover more water). Rather, I love the elegance of spey casting. Also, I love the fact that spey casting is easy to learn, but difficult to master.

    Second, I use a single hander on the smaller rivers. For example, last week I fished the Camp Water on the North Umpqua. I took both a spey rod and a single hander and used both. When I fish the Stilly, I use a single-hander almost exclusively, now.

    Third, I make a distinction between spey casting (which can be done with both single- and two-handers. I almost always spey cast with my single-handers. Learn the single-hander Turbo Spey - A spey cast using a single-haul - and you can lay out line as far as most overhead casts.

    >The only drawback I can see to
    >Spey fishing is its lack of
    >sensitivity when you have any
    >size fish on compared to a single
    >hand rod

    I somewhat unclear about what you mean by sensitivity, but the many spey casters from whom I learned argue that the longer rod gives the fish (and the fisherman) more leverage. In terms of detecting a gentle strike, you may be correct. But Mike Kinney and Dec Hogan both say they can feel the fly swim (Not me, tho').

    Finally, as mentioned earlier, bringing a fish to hand is non-trivial, at best, when using a long spey rod.

    Good luck, have fun.

    Cheers,

    Michael
     
  17. circlespey

    circlespey Member

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    Add me to the list of the people that switched to spey rods and have hardly looked back; I even fish my light (six weight) spey rod for trout on the Yak or from a float tube on occasion.

    A few things that haven't been drawn out fully are that:

    1) Many spey rod fisherman cast past the fish, myself included all too often. This usually is not a problem on the Sky or Sauk, but on a small stream, or a branch of a larger stream, the fish are often so close to you, and a long cast is pretty unproductive.

    2) Mending and line control is, in my opinion, the single biggest reason to fish a spey rod. You can mend 80, 90, or more feet or line at once. You can effectively fish a seam 50-60 feet off the bank on the other side of some deep frog water (Buck Island, anyone?). You can fish multiple seams on the same swing with good mending during a drift. On some of the longer casts and swings, you can get a seemingly endless slow swing (my friends have labeled it "continental drift"). And perhaps most importantly, you can mend a bad cast into a good swing; this is always something I have trouble with on a 1H rod, because I am not a very good 1H caster.

    3) Ease / effort is the second biggest reason to fish a spey rod. You can cast 80-90 feet with the heaviest tips all day long with very little effort; in fact, most spey debates I see center around "this is the easiest line to cast," in other words minimizing the workload on the caster.

    4) Spey casting is FUN. Do you remember how much fun you had the first time you picked up a fly rod? It's like learning to fish all over again, except that you know something about fishing already. Good 1H casters quickly become good 2H casters, since you know how to load a rod. I've taught lots of people to spey cast and usually with a little help people are fishing right away, and casting reasonably well within a day. But, get some help; flailing around on the water by yourself with the rod won't get you very far.

    5) Spey casting opens up water that you don't normally get to fish. Forget the distance thing for a second: steep banks, overhanging trees, edges with no backcast room, etc., are places that few people hit. If you can cast 40-50 feet (often less than the belly of the line) from such spots you can be deadly. Yes, it's hard to land fish there but I believe it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

    Circlespey
     
  18. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    I hate discussions like this because now I'm definitely going to have to get a 2H when I go up on the Bulkley and Morice this fall.
    It's just that I have a spent a huge fortune on fishing tackle. In fact, I have often thought that I should have opened a sporting goods store when I was younger because I would have made a rather handsome living with just myself as a customer let alone the possibility of hooking a few others here and there.
    But now it's too late for the store idea so it looks pretty much like I'll have to pony up some more dough.
    I could sell one of my four boats, but how then will I fish? Maybe my unused bellyboat (a Caddis) should go up on the block for say $50, about half of what I paid. Got to think about that one.
    Then maybe I could sell lemonade or apples down on the corner for the rest of the money. Also, if you would like to donate some bucks to the "BOB LAWLESS CHARITY DRIVE TO GET HIM A NEW SPEY ROD," please feel free to do so. Any extra money will be donated to him for beer and sandwiches.
    I'm a pretty good roll caster and I could use some more distance here on our rivers on the O.P. Damn, life has its torturous problems: to spey or not to spey? eh?
    Bob, the Sick with Indecision.
    :bawling :bawling :bawling
     
  19. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    He might provide the beer but you can't drink it. He buys any off the wall kind. I think that he looks for whats on a close out sale and then gets it. On the other hand BOB you're going to have to sell a lot of lemonade to get a spey rod. But if you wait a little longer I think that the price will get down to your price range. Lamiglas is coming out with one that is a little cheaper in price. Oh hell I don't thing you will be around by the time the price comes down being that your on your last legs.

    Jim
     
  20. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    In the parking lot where our last meeting was held, a pretty woman asked me if Jim (two years older than I am) was my father? I thought maybe she was hitting on me, but now I think it might have been the Old Man she was after. Women are getting very strange these days. HHHmmmm. I guess my time is still to come.
    :rofl :rofl :rofl
     

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