Anyone else feel like blowing up the internet?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by golfman65, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,795
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +320 / 1
    Funny stuff, and tempting but it's sub regional wrestling tourny @ squalicum sat. good luck bro
  2. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,795
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +320 / 1
    Redshed, I take solace in your signature line, if you witnessed my casting you might puke, but it works on occasion.
  3. golfman65 Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    I took your advice Micheal and went out and re-greased my old bougles with some fancy red grease...sat down and worked um for awhile....even tied a couple flies, smoked a big stogie and polluted my lungs from the gym...

    I sometimes read these sites and it seems like the guys who were there in the beginning of it all..the real old timers have gone underground and what's left are guys who only seem to worry about cashing in on it as much as they can...Guys who I consider almost mercenary write some total drivel and everyone is all gushing choking on their bones so hard its sick...

    I think of what I started with and how long it's taken me to get to these first few steps on my journey...a long time to appreciate some things and understand what some of the old timers were telling me but that I had to find out for myself....to accumulate some skill and understanding of gear etc. and learn to fish it effectively...and come around to some items that I scoffed at as "old slag metal and rivets" for example....Used to be that's how it was...now it's about getting all that first..before you even know what it is or the how's and why's of using it....like lets see if we can all show up with this stuff...cut all the corners off learning....and look at me...I'm a steelheader!!! Fuck I'm a gear ho big time but I don't care so much what others got....I've seen so many guys on the rivers that have all of that...seen um cast and walked away...Thought back to when if you walked out with all kinds of fancy gear and couldn't cast or knew what you were doing you'd get laughed off the river...Now not so....yet no one asks what to me is the most important question when you meet another guy....

    "Can I see your fly box"? What are you using out here? what color do you think works on this river? Guys will argue all over the sites that color doesn't mean shit but on some rivers I firmly believe it can make all the difference and sometimes maybe not so much....We are fly fisherman but no seems to care about the fly....

    I would bet that no matter what gear someone is using or wearing...a quick look in their fly box will tell you everything you need to know....about them..about whether or not their new to this...about what is important to them by what they're using...about where they are at on this journey as a whole....I see someones box and see some just wicked flies in it....I want to sit down and talk to this guy..If he'll let you, and most do...they don't seem in as much of a hurry as everyone else...they'll show you a couple boxes and tell you how they started with this and then went to that...maybe about how they finally came around to beginning and only fish classic's...cause they mean something to them....Guys like this have caught hundreds and sometimes thousands of fish...I know I've been lucky enough to meet a few....but then...we don't have to do that...we can stick a long rabbit strip on a piece of string and a hook and a bead maybe...that's all you really need to catch fish!!! Fuck...Is that why everyone is out here now????

    Seems ...it's about what new tip is out there..what line so and so uses...Hey did you see how far he can cast.. Who's rod looks coolest, casting it is secondary...Hey how much did your reel cost..not what's it like when a fish is running? What do you do when the fish is screaming down river and your hand is going up and down...Oh that's why they call it shaking hands with a fish??? Can you palm it? Is the drag any good when it's wet or cold...Will it take a beating and still perform? Nope show up with a perfect and your in the club!!! Hell I'm just still considering one..and after that St. George I'm not so sure anymore...but what do I know?

    It's cool when you run into guys and they say..."We need a plan" We need to look at a run and decide before we fish it how we're going to fish it...Same thing I've been thinking all along...You start here...go big go small, cast in close don't spook the water..learn to cast a skagit or whatever line your using, without having to do snaps and pokes and rip the shit out of it so every fish in the run will hide....Good to meet guys who you don't have to babysit, who you turn around and notice are staring at something up river...wander off for an hour and come back with a big shit eating grin cause they got a fish somewhere no one else thought to look...Even cooler when that guy is you once in awhile....Nice when a guy will say...Hey you go first...I got one yesterday or last week or last run...let's get you something...guys who will give a good fly away to a newbie who has a box of junk...Shit like that is what makes this sport for me....and meeting guys who are like minded....The gear is fun and all but the water is what you got to learn first...everything else is secondary...

    Shit, listen to me....I talk too much...most of this will probably just piss off the masses anyways....sounds like some preacher telling everyone their all going to hell....when he's been screwing the choir...

    Might be why the old timers are silent...they have heard all this before as well and finally just got tired of it too...I'm too much of a newbie to be here but I sure feel like it's been a long time some days...

    Just thankful for a site where you can vent and not get banned for naughty words or kicking the stool out once in awhile ...maybe....I hope...
  4. guybg New Member

    Posts: 103
    underwood, Wa
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Excellent post Golfman,

    I especially like this paragraph...

    I'm stuck here in Florida 'till March, but I'm learning all I can before I move back to the PNW. Grew up in Eastern Oregon with a trout stream running through the property and a misspent youth wasted on upland game hunting and fishing. Don't know how many dinners and lunches I ate cold 'cause I was on the water pursuing fish far away when Mom shouted that chow was ready.

    I know where the fish are. I know what they like, and where they hide, and I've caught many, many of them with both gear and single handers..but now I want to learn to use a spey rod. I won't show up on the river with one 'till I've learned enough to send a fly to where the fish are..and it may not be pretty but I'll learn and get better at it.

    You'll know me when you see me, I'm the tall skinny bald guy with the Aussie hat and cheap neoprene waders (till I can afford better ones)...I'm the guy that's sitting on the bank absorbing everything you do if you're any good at it. I'll be cheering you on if you hook one while I watch.

    I'm the guy that'll wander off instead of following you through the run and fish the deserted parts of the river, in places some might think marginal or useless, but show promise when I look at them, 'cause I know fish have to pass through there to get to the honey holes.

    That's me.

    I'm the guy with $500 in my rod and reel because I don't feel the need to get caught up in the whole Hardy Perfect thing...though I'll probably compliment you on the fine piece of equipment you're using.

    I won't be in the least embarrassed by my own equipment.

    I may ask you for a pointer on my casting...but I won't ask you where the fish are...that part I already have down cold.

    I hope I meet you on the river one day, I'd be proud to fish with you!
  5. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,544
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,506 / 9
    Golfman...sorry I neglected to show...showing reveals that I am very new to this. Having not yet established the flies that work best from the clutter here.
    View attachment 38524
    and you saw this...
    View attachment 38525
    this one was in my bag with another line to try...
    View attachment 38526
    I've never fondled a Hardy Perfect, the hardy reels I've held did not jump out and grab me. I like the price point, look and sound of the J. W. Young and Sons 1500 series though, I like them a lot, and can palm them...should the occasion ever finally present itself.

    Oh, and I have a plan. I'll put the plan into action whenever my family responsibilities allow. Thus far it is not a rock solid plan, but I'm stepping through the plan, one pool, run or riffle at a time...

    Hope today you are feeling better and no longer worrying about what anyone thinks of you, or themselves, fancy or budget gear included. If you want that Perfect, find it, fish it and enjoy it. Who gives two shits about what anyone else thinks?
  6. bitterroot Love vintage graphite!

    Posts: 1,428
    Montana
    Ratings: +215 / 1
    Golfman...good post!
  7. Steve Call Active Member

    Posts: 1,567
    Wetside, WA
    Ratings: +188 / 0
    thanks. I/we needed that.
  8. Thomas Mitchell Active Member

    Posts: 839
    Western, WA
    Ratings: +191 / 2
    Hi Chris. Sent you a PM on the wrestling stuff.

  9. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,795
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +320 / 1
    Thomas, you must be very proud of your daughter.
  10. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,795
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +320 / 1
    Golfman, good post, sometimes we just gotta vent. Just a thought, but maybe the reason those old timers are silent is they know we all gotta come to those realizations for ourselves ( if we ever do!). Anyway I hope to meet you someday on the river, you sound like a guy a could share a run with.
  11. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

    Posts: 994
    do'n it 4 the chinookie
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Best interweb post in a long time Golfman:thumb::thumb::thumb:
    Keep your reels greased and your cork stinky !! All us at the lodge are pull'n for ya!!:thumb:
  12. golfman65 Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    Yeah I think your right Chris..and would look forward to sharing a run with you as well...The little kettle of my brain sometimes gets too much steam and has to blow...but i'm a nobody and shouldn't be spouting off either...I can imagine how hard some of those old timers would be laughing if they read this...just shaking their heads thinking...damn your slow...

    Thanks LL but don't pump me up...I might try and sell you some tips...lol...
  13. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,578
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,707 / 0
    "Shit, I thought you ran into Stacy on the river and he told you your flies look like shit, your reel sucks and there is no use for 2 handed rods."

    Kerry,

    That's funny. I know Stacy, who used to preach the gospel of two-handed rods. Then when Harry went back to his single hand cane rods, Stacy bad-mouths the two-handed rods. What a character. Once he took a couple flies from his box and handed them to me to look at. I said thanks and proceeded to put them in my own fly box, ala Jerry Wintle. I laughed when he said he wasn't giving them to me, just letting me look at them to admire. So I said I really admire fine flies and that he should tie me a couple, and he did. I'll take his flies any day, but maybe more selective about advice.

    G'man,

    I'm not sure if that's what you meant, but yes, the real old timers have gone underground. Al Knudsen, Haig-Brown, Brace Hayden, Mike Kennedy, Syd Glasso, Wes Drain, Ralph Wahl, Walt Johnson. Steelheaders I've met and known, not around any longer. But none of them were on the internet or WFF anyway, so I'm not sure I understand your remarks about blowing up the internet. Most of these guys dressed their rods with Hardy "slag metal," Perfects and St. Johns, not for prestige, but because they were at one time reasonably priced and have proven their durability to the task of steelheading. Sure there was and is a bit of primping, aquiring a Walker or Bogdan. That's not so much to show it off, altho we do that, but because there's a satisfaction and pride in owning a hand made tool useful in an avocation we're passionate about. Not to get too far tangential, but I'll be taking delivery of a handmade reel by Mark Shamburg in a couple weeks. I told myself not to buy any more Spey equipment a couple years ago because I think the handwriting is on the wall regarding the future viability of steelheading. But I saw the hand work of a craftsman, and it's a tool I'll be able to use for a bit, and I can appreciate that. And nowadays, I can afford it, whereas I was still fishing with an 8 1//2' glass rod well beyond the birth and rising popularity of two-handed rods on the Skagit.

    Are you objecting to that group of anglers referred to as "posers?" They have the means and the goods, but perhaps lack an essential spirit of the sport? Not sure, but if so, I think I can relate. Between 1980-82 or so, came the YUPPIE boom, young urban professionals, all with a VISA gold card. They could walk into a full service fly shop (there wasn't such a thing in the Seattle area until that time), lay that VISA on the counter and $1200 in charges later, walk out fully dressed and equipped as a fly fisherman without knowing a damn thing about fly fishing (or steelheading). Completely analogous to the comments by Norman McLean's younger brother that no one should be able to catch a trout who doesn't actually understand and know how to fish for trout; it's an insult to the trout.

    And if I run into you on a river, I won't ask to see what's in your fly box. Count me among those who don't care what other people fish with. However, if you show me your fly box and I like what I see, I'll probably try and pull a Wintle and openly admire them in hopes you offer me one or two.

    Sg
  14. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,940
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +675 / 0
    I only talked to Stacy once...all the other times I tried to slink away before he saw me. :)
  15. Leroy Laviolet Aint no nookie like chinookie

    Posts: 994
    do'n it 4 the chinookie
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Lets go with a "thought provoking and accurate " thread then ! Don't want ya to get on too high a horse :rofl: I'll take #8 type 6 tip :thumb:
  16. Steve Saville Active Member

    Posts: 2,522
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +350 / 1
    iagree If you don't lik it, turn it off. We're lucky to have some pretty knowledgable guys here but some of the other forums are spewing a bunch of crap. You have to have your filters in place.
  17. Richard Torres Active Member

    Posts: 1,355
    Mill Creek
    Ratings: +79 / 0
    Or go drive some golfballs... Sheesh......
  18. golfman65 Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    No not that far underground sg...

    I guess I'm pissing in the wind a bit..and probably the last guy who should be doing that...Partially it's the posers with the gear..but that's nothing new I guess...maybe I was one as well....But it's funny, we used to look at these old guys and their hardys and know, they fished them because that's what they had...the next generation that came...I'd see a few guys...Canadians as that's where I fished mostly...sporting mostly bougles and I'd give um shit...Good naturedly...telling them that no matter how hard they tried, they were still canadians and not english...It was kind of a joke and was given and taken....Christ a perfect was few and far between and I thought..damn that's an ugly old piece of shit...

    Then I got a little light weight for my 000...and then a golden for my switch...ah crap..a mk 1v found it's way in and a centenary....Yup Just like the rot in the poor limeys teeth that made them...they have carved a cavity into my fishing gear as well....

    But that's only part of it, the other part being, I guess I was lucky enough to bum my way along to a few spots and meet some decent guys who would let me go to dinner with their clubs on the banks of certain rivers...there you'd meet some guys who's name you knew and flies you tied...and just get the chance to listen to them talk as friends and realize how humble and modest these guys were...Just like you and me...they are just you and me....I SO desperately wanted to ask this one guy to sign his book for me...which I carried as I was on that river...but I couldn't because I knew it would have embarrassed him more then me for asking...and while I kicked myself for that I still wouldn't want to embarrass a guy like that...

    Their flies and their stories of the times and fish on that river were amazing..as was how much they gave to the sport without ever asking anything back...they passed on their knowledge and effort in conservation etc. to our generation I guess you call the next one...and I just get frustrated because it seems like we don't care...we have all seen the writing on the wall you speak of and some are trying their hardest to squeeze every penny they can out of the sport before it's gone...passing on total b.s. knowledge not for the sake of anyone learning or growing from it but to make a buck or kill a fish...

    And here stands the following generation...decked out in new rods, old reels, mow tips and chunks of animal skin hanging off their hooks...Copies of the skagitmaster in their waterproof backpacks, god forbid if not wearing Simms hats made our of recycled waders in the latest swath of orange....

    "catch anything today lads?"

    "Nope old timer we didn't..but we were having trouble getting our pokes over the cack hand and not hooking our nose rings with our 12" introuters"

    "hey old timer is that a perfect you got there? Can I buy it?"

    Fuck...i'm really not that old...
  19. slippery_whippet Member

    Posts: 229
    Sedro Woolley, WA
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    That's funny and I get it too! Been there done that myself.....;)
  20. orangeradish Bobo approved

    Posts: 2,470
    Capital City
    Ratings: +491 / 0
    GM, I'm going to buy you a beer next time I see you. Keep your chin up, bud.
    Jason