Are these pics yours?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by KerryS, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

    "What we used to settle with common sense or a fist, we now settle with hand sanitizer and lawyers" - Adam Carolla
     
  2. GATOR9

    GATOR9 Hey you guys

    Mumbles,

    Please give the definition of Douchfoolery.
     
  3. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

    Just going out on a limb, but I believe it's behavior that falls just between asshattery and sackmongering.
     
  4. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    I must admit, ashamed, that I stole the term douchefoolery from another valued member of WFF. I do believe that the intent of said word, douchefoolery, is to conjure up the image of some sick and twisted social deviant that can do no right. I like the blending theory of Flyborg's, somewhere between asshattery and sackmongering. Might kick in a dash of chokecockery as well.
     
  5. Brazda

    Brazda Fly Fishing guide "The Bogy House" Lodge

    Maybe we don't need better guide regs just WFF police they seem to do the job....
     
  6. Dustin Bise

    Dustin Bise Active Member

    i think its reality check, not reality test. i could be wrong though.
     
  7. _WW_

    _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    So...if he's not a guide then someone should take a trip with him and refuse to pay...:)
     
  8. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    Great idea! Ask to check his guide license, no license no guide fee.
     
  9. Jim Kerr

    Jim Kerr Active Member

    This guys site uses a a whole page of text ripped directly, word for word from my site. His rates page is identical to my winter steelhead description page. I don't really care, I just wish he put it in quotes and gave me some credit, I thought it was a nice piece of writing.
    Jim
     
  10. Anybody tried doing a DMCA complaint to his web host to take this stuff down? Maybe if everyone sends the request on the same day, they might get the hint and take his whole page down.
     
  11. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

    A bit off point, but went back to post #1 that had the guys web address and saw the following:

    SOMERS OUTDOORS Guided Fishing Trip Waiver
    I agree that I and not the outfitter (Somers Outdoors), am solely responsible for any accidents or injuries result directly or indirectly from the use of real estate or equipment relating to this activity. I am aware that while I am partaking in the services offered by Somers Outdoors or agents of Somers Outdoors, there are certain risks and dangers including personal injury caused while fishing from a drift boat, a raft, river wading, traveling by motor vehicle, or loss of or damage to equipment. In consideration of, and as part of payment for, the right to participate in any activities and to use equipment, services, or food provided by Somers Outdoors and its’ agents, associates, or contractors, I do hereby assume all of these and any other risks, including simple negligence, that may arise while participating in this activity, and I do hereby release Somers Outdoors from all liability relating to this activity. Client 1 Name: Client 2 Name:
    Address: Address:

    Etc."

    Is signing off on that kind of 'waiver' normal? I don't recall ever being asked to initial something of this nature.

    fae
     
  12. OneMoreCast

    OneMoreCast Member

    Actually, this waiver is "borrowed" directly from Red's http://www.redsflyshop.com/waiver.doc. He "borrowed" some other text from Red's as well. (I already let them know.) As to the normality of it, I know that some insurers require it for liability reasons.

    As to the DMCA complaint, I am pretty sure he'd be taken down more or less immediately based on the stuff he's stolen. That he is using plagiarized material to (theoretically*) compete with both Jim and Red's would be likely be considered malicious intent.

    (*Technically he "guides" the same waters as Jim and Red's, though the comparison to these two upstanding guide businesses is laughable.)

    Anyway, DMCA complaints are typically only heard if the owner has been contacted directly first. I already sent him a cease and desist letter when I saw he ripped off Jim's web page. If he doesn't respond I'll file the DMCA.

    Joe
     
  13. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

    Joe, you've got a new (to me) term in your post above: "DMCA." Who are these folks?

    Fred
     
  14. Jake H

    Jake H Banned or Parked

    Waivers such as these are common place with outfitting businesses throughout the west, however without a license or liability it's not worth the paper it's printed on.
     
  15. Don Freeman

    Don Freeman Free Man

    If an outfitter asks you to sign a waiver, and it's worded roughly like the one above, sign it. They have been required by their insurer, or advised by counsel to get these in order to reduce nuisance suits. You don't give up any rights in the event of malfeasance by the guide.

    On the other hand, if you're not asked to sign, it doesn't mean the guide is less trustworthy. Some authorities claim that waivers aren't concretely binding, and that requiring a client to sign one on the river bank prior to boarding constitutes coercion which invalidates the document, and on and on.

    If the outfitter is licensed and insured, follow his/her SOP and don't fret about it.
     
  16. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

    I'm getting a real education here. Darned interesting stuff.

    fae
     
  17. Jake H

    Jake H Banned or Parked

    While this is true in theory it still requires some diligence on the behalf of the customer. In the State of Washington, there is NO minimum requirement for liability and a waiver such as this , especially in the case of an unlicensed guide, is subterfuge. In this guys boat an accident would certainly place liability on the illegal practices but leave the customer with very little recourse if injured, or worse. It's also worth noting that non-resident guide licenses are nearly $700.00 for the season, a fee that more than a few find out of reach. Don't let a fishing trip turn your life in a direction that you never imagined. Demand proof of license and insurance , then fish with real peace of mind.
     
  18. Don Freeman

    Don Freeman Free Man

    I can't agree with you on this point. The above waiver states that the participant assumes risks "including simple negligence". Simple negligence is not gross nonfeasance, misfeasance nor malfeasance on the the part of a "non-reasonable and prudent professional". A waiver recognizing inherent risk does not, and can not be construed to sign away my right, or that of my survivors to sane and prudent service. In this country, there is always recourse, you can sue anybody, anytime, for anything, no matter how frivolous.

    In this case, idiocy on the part of a guide who can be found unqualified in training and grossly negligent in performance by his peers and a court of law provides cause for recovery of damages.

    The real rub, and, and this may be what Jake is referring to, is that the SOB may not have anything of value to seize, which brings us back to hiring a licensed and insured professional.

    I realize that I got a little wordy here, but I've made a study of tort law and controlling liability. I thought I understood exposure in outdoor services when I was in the river running and scuba businesses, but then I went to work for a playground manufacturer. I'm sure base jumping is less perilous when the lawyers get involved.
     
  19. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

    Great answer Don, great answer.

    fae
     

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