Bad fly shop

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by triploidjunkie, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. PT

    PT Physhicist

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    Whatever the legalities, it's a chump move. Can't promote your own accomplishments so use stolen photos.
     
  2. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

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    I bet I know which picture that was:)
     
  3. tkww

    tkww Member

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    Correct. More specifically, you can recover a fee for usage (via court) sans copyright registration. IOW, If it would have normally cost X for a person/site/entity to have bought and used the image in the manner the stolen material was used, then you can sue them for X. (In this day an age of stock photography, that usually ain't much...) However if you'd like punitive damages or any further monetary remuneration, you will have needed to have copyrighted it.
     
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  4. scottr

    scottr Active Member

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    Sounds like Orvis stepped up and all parties are happy with the outcome. Mistakes happen, but how you fix them is often what is most important.
     
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  5. Krusty

    Krusty Krusty Old Effer

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    This is the first time in my life I actually did something legit...The avatar is mine....and that's my favorite old heavy-ass Fenwick.
     
  6. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    I'm not smart enough to steal somebody's picture on the internet. I have to use my own pictures.
     
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  7. tkww

    tkww Member

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    I don't disagree--it'd be nice to see more integrity up front--but there's not effing way corporate Orvis participated in that. There's a difference between A/B/C/fill-in-you-adjective-of-choice-for-how-you-feel-about-Orvis and Orvis trying to commit publicity suicide.
     
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  8. scottr

    scottr Active Member

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    This happened with the Orvis Boulder Instagram acct and not the Orvis Corp Social team. It was probably a shop guy who committed the copyright infringement yet Orvis corp stepped up and made it right by paying the photographer a usage fee. I am sure Orvis corp & Boulder Retail dealt with the employee and it won't happen again.

    There is a generation of people who have grown up with the internet. They've always had the world of content and information at their fingertips. This is a generation that either doesn't respect or understand copyright law, it is an anachronism because "information wants to be free man."

    As someone who has worked with intellectual properties that were widely pirated I don't agree with the free information mentality nor do I agree with how the RIAA dealt with the 13 year olds who ripped music from Napster.
     
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  9. generic

    generic Active Member

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    I'm reminded of the words, "... and in those days, every man did what seemed right in his own eyes."

    Seems like that's the norm now-a-days. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean it's right.
     
  10. tkww

    tkww Member

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    No, you're right. But let's just keep going--I mean, why stop at corporations? The parents of all murderers should also be in prison.

    Seriously, WTF is "accountable"? Foreseeing a mistake a single individual made with their magic psychic powers and not stopping it? Yeah, as crazy as it sounds, Corporate Orvis didn't think to include "don't steal" in their employee handbook because...oh, I don't know, it kinda seemed fucking obvious. Not including "thou shalt not" of every conceivable wrong someone could do isn't dodging accountability.

    There was a problem, they fixed it. There is only one wrongdoer here, and hopefully he's out of a job. Unless you have some sort of evidence of widespread theft of copyright that suggests a willful corporate culture of dishonesty at Orvis, your whole "corporate" rant is weirdly off base here.
     
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  11. FinLuver

    FinLuver Active Member

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    Is it against the copyright laws to save photos posted on the internet to your computer for use as screen savers, desktop backgrounds, or to play as a slide show at fly tying expos while you tie?

    I admire many photos that I see and would think others would like to see as well.

    (I try and save the person's name if possible for future reference too.)
     
  12. Kyle Smith

    Kyle Smith DBA BozoKlown406

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    Man, the Drake is annoying...
     
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  13. scottr

    scottr Active Member

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    I am not lawyer but it is my understanding that if you are using someone else's intellectual property for any purpose without permission it could be construed as copyright infringement. It does not have to be for commercial use. There is not a hard and fast rule, there are some uses that might be considered fair use, like printing an excerpt of a book for the purposes of providing a literary review or using as a short quote to support a point in an article but the law can be a little squishy.

    In your example showing another persons work in a slide show at a fly fishing expo would likely be a violation of their copyright.
     
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  14. tkww

    tkww Member

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    Couldn't agree more.

    Sorry, but that's complete BS. An employee that does something an employer doesn't wish or "shouldn't do" can happen in any size business. A small business might have the luxury of more oversight, more likely to have seen clues before something this ridiculously blatant happened, etc.

    Again, what was Orvis supposed to do? Create a list of thing you shouldn't do--it could be infinitely long--and email out on a weekly basis for "emphasis"? No employer would reasonably expect to have to tell an employee not to steal. (Or murder, or lie, or any number of things we all generally accept as necessary behavior in our society.) This is not to be confused with business that purposely lie, but I'll get to that in a second.

    And I would think that paying the hospital bill would be completely reasonable. My owning of the dog and not keeping it locked up properly led the problem, it would be my responsibility to make it up. And Orvis did that. We can have a discussion about whether or not Orvis has done a good enough job of promoting "honesty" in their employees, but as I've already stated, I don't think that someone stealing on their own is a reflection of Orvis. You apparently disagree and blame it on their size, even though you give absolutely zero evidence of incident being a reflection of Orvis' corporate culture.

    Here is my issue: Orvis is company that makes decent fishing gear, some of it is even great. They provide fantastic customer service. As a company they've contributed to conservation efforts all over the place. Their employees have contributed to this board. They have contributed to my local fly club. All in all, they seem pretty much like a model company.

    And then because one dude somewhere does some jackass thing, you go off and bashing them because of their size, implying that they are reckless with their handling of employees, don't know how to supervise, etc. And base all this on one instance from them and then countless vague attributes of other companies. And in that one instance that you base this bashing on, they took actions to correct it. So WTF is your problem with them? If you want to go off about investment banks and the state of our financial community where the whole point is to sell a lie, fine, but what's your deal with Orvis?
     
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  15. scottr

    scottr Active Member

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    Any company who puts an employee in charge of a social media account needs to train those employees in both law (liable, copyright, trademark) and social media best practices (don't feed trolls, don't lie, don't create fake accounts to increase likes, don't use other peoples property).

    I'm sure someone at Orvis corp will be sending a memo to the stores about this since they just paid for a bunch of photos they had not likely budgeted for.
     
  16. tkww

    tkww Member

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  17. generic

    generic Active Member

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    Bottom line, people lie, cheat and steal in every company/government/religion. It's a fact of life.

    Look up the definition of accountable, then decide whether or not Orvis was held accountable.
     
  18. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Seems Orvis Corporate level quickly acknowledged that somewhere way down the food chain someone on their payroll did something improper. Seems Orvis Corporate made contact with the intellectual property owner to make it right. Seems the intellectual property owner is now satisfied, has had a bit of publicity and may stand to even gain from being acknowledged as good with the lense. No doubt there will be some internal recalibration throught Orvis. Many respected companies do this recalibration from time to time. Finding a way to do things right or make things right is what separates very good companies from those that seem to care less about such things.
     
  19. generic

    generic Active Member

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    a.k.a. "they held themselves accountable"
     
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  20. constructeur

    constructeur Active Member

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    Is there an echo in here? :rolleyes: