Ban On Steelhead Fishing From Boats?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Bob Triggs, Oct 28, 2009.

  1. Brett Angel Member

    Posts: 530
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    My only objection at this point is mis- or ill-informed decision making and I'm not one to makes these types of issues an us vs. them.
  2. 1morecast Active Member

    Posts: 745
    Port Angeles
    Ratings: +49 / 0
    What I read in Bob's post is a call for help from a passionate steelhead angler, who just happens to make a living from this troubled resource. While I agree in part with his post, we do need to give the fish a break, and fishing from a boat is a VERY EFFECTIVE way to hook more fish,I do not support an across the board boat closure on rivers.
    How about certain rivers at certain times of the year? The Hoh for example, no fishing from a boat from point A to point B from say this date -that date. Another option could be limiting guided trips on certain days of the week. This is done on a couple of rivers in SW Montana.

    The bottom line is something has to done, before it is to late!!

    A message brought to you by a passionate wanna be steelhead junkie.:beer2:
  3. fifafu Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    James if you want to call names fine.

    You are still wrong.

    If the moderators of this board want this to be turned into a namecalling contest fine because this is the last time you call me a name without me calling you names back. So James before you call me "ignorant" or "troll" again understand that I will respond in kind.

    You can simply appologize. I will accept.
  4. smc Active Member

    Posts: 374
    Up River
    Ratings: +25 / 0
    Brett, it would be impossible to make that connection from such broad empherical "data". I will be very interested in hearing what you learn from ODFW.

    A boat ban would not take away a guides tool/boat, although it would certainly change the way that tool is used. I imagine there were guides on the Deschutes that screamed bloody murder prior to the ban becoming law. The guides that are prospering now are the ones that adapted. Perhaps even more importantly, the clientele's expectations evolved as well.

    Would a boat ban be an effective resource management tool on particular rivers? I don't know. What strikes me though is the "fairness" issue.

    I know this thread is about banning fishing from moving boats on rivers, but how can we seriously consider this without considering the more obvious problem of bank to bank nets?

    Perhaps guys like Jason Decker and Trout_Bum would be more willing to consider tying one arm behind their back if the net guys would also tie an arm behind their back. I hope the boxing analogy makes sense here.

    Steve
  5. Troutrageous Active Member

    Posts: 422
    Yakima
    Ratings: +33 / 0
    fifafu, please give it a rest, anyone who has read this thread knows where you stand, and your attitude, you don't need to keep popping back in every few posts to remind us all and try to pick fights.
  6. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    Ban boats? No way. That would suck. I wouldn't mind seeing internal combustion motors banned on a few rivers though. Not for the fishes sake, for mine. I've come pretty close to getting hit by drunk assholes flying through shallow water in jet boats. Had my canoe flipped from it once as well.
  7. Brett Angel Member

    Posts: 530
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    smc, I'm interested to see what ODFW has to say, too. My question to them is whether the ban on boats is/was purely cosmetic or driven by science with proven results. Or some BS like that.

    You're analogy is spot on as well as your point on clientele’s expectations. After all they/we/you/everyone who puts value on catching a steelhead are the ones driving this sh*t-show.
  8. fifafu Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    James I finish my posts on this string with an explanation.

    As you can see this is my ninth post ever on this site. I didn't come here to troll flyfisherman. It is obvious that this toxic topic has been on the agenda before and I was not a part of it then therefore didn't understand how many time this horse has been beaten.

    I stopped fishing 15 years ago when I moved away to pursue my career in the Palm Desert, California. I learned everything I know about flyfishing from a great man named Bob Ferber. When I found out my partner and guru had fallen ill I was drawn back in to honor my firend. I built a new a rod and started fishing again. I came here to find out more about the area I live in now not get into a bickerfest. I wasn't trying to offend anyone.

    I stand by my posts but concede to being narrow minded or as some would say focused.
  9. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    the guides on the oregon deschutes are doing quite well. they are busy almost all 12 months of the year. you see, people pay big bucks for a quality experience. just like folks will pay a fortune for a B.C. steelhead experience, it has raised the bar for the guides and the folks who want the experience. there are simply some people who, as i said, are fine with novel ideas, so long as its not 'my river, my guide service, my thinking'. unfortunately it is that level of 'non-thought' which gives the big breaks to the commercial fishery and keeps the political pressure on WDFW to maintain the status quo. and that, in turn, is why CCA will not succeed until or unless a group like this files a law suit to get the nets out as the very first step.
  10. Brett Angel Member

    Posts: 530
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    gt, if I'm understanding you correctly the bigger issue is getting everyone on the same page. I would guess that the original OP's proposal would only further separate these groups fighting for wild steelhead instead of unite them. How do you unite groups with equally passionate and opposing viewpoints? F*ck me if I know.

    I'm going fishing. gt and smc thanks for the discussion.
  11. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    Punch and Pie?
  12. Brett Angel Member

    Posts: 530
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    That'll get them in the room.
  13. James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    Posts: 2,787
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    Namecalling, I'll apologize for; Sorry I called you a troll. Saying you are ignorant isn't name calling though. It's an association made about your when making statements that are simply not true. Once I again, I EMPLORE you to read the Boldt decision prior to talking about tribal gilnetting any further. If you want more info on this feel free to PM. I can provide lots of info that is pretty much requisite reading for anyone serious about steelhead.
  14. Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    Posts: 3,980
    Olympic Peninsula
    Ratings: +648 / 0
    Jason Decker: I was fishing from boats before you were born.:p

    We manage to fish from shore, shallow wading etc, without trudging into redds. And what do you think dragging anchors does to redds?

    Perhaps amongst all of the comments posted so far here I think that Salmo G's were the most chillingly accurate regarding the WDFW policies on Wild Steelhead management here; regardless of the precipitous decline of these last wild fish- especially on the coastal rivers of the Olympic Peninsula- the state still promotes harvest, even on rivers with failed escapements. He further points out that the wdfw stance would be that such exploitation goals should be maximized by the use of boats to fish from. And so, reasoning from WDFW management's standpoint- my idea is "D.O.A."

    My only consideration here was to suggest a way that we sports anglers and guides could agree to make less of an fatal impact on these runs while still being able to fish for them. The way things are going now I think that we will see an outright, total closure on some of these rivers soon. Look how well that has worked out on some other rivers. How has the Wild Steelhead recovery gone elsewhere after they had waited so long to reduce or close fishing?

    It was not a cheap shot towards boats in particular, but only based on observation and personal experience in the field of the severe impacts on the fish here. I made no mention of the tribal netting as it is actually irrelevant to what we do and how we do it as non tribal fishermen. I merely suggested that we take a step toward limiting our own impacts on what little we have left. These kinds of conservation measures do have an effect on other stakeholders and how they manage things in the long run.

    By using boats only as river transportation but not to directly fish fromwe could still continue to fish, and also create some sanctuary water by virtue of the remaining "less fishable" waters. An example would be the lower Elwah River where such a rule is already in place, and as has already been noted here by others the Oregon fishermen and guides have adapted quite well to such a rule.

    And of course a rule partially exempting handicapped anglers would be in line with the same rules of access for handicapped hunters.

    My reasoning on having this as a Statewide Rule is based on an understanding that Wild Steelhead have evolved over millennia throughout an huge geographical eco-region; from Russia to Alaska, Washington, Oregon and California, not just by one river run at a time. And the history of managing runs of wild steelhead here, on a river-by-river and run-by-run basis, has obviously been catastrophic for the fish. And in the face of those millennia of evolution it only took a few human generations to crush them; one river at a time.

    If we can not put the fish first there will be no fishing left here.
  15. Smalma Active Member

    Posts: 2,800
    Marysville, Washington
    Ratings: +655 / 0
    Bob -
    Unless aliens have gained control of my computer or I have resumed sleep walking and begun posting in my sleep I don't think I have posted anything on this thread until now.

    Let the debate continue!

    Tight lines
    Curt
  16. nomlasder Active Member

    Posts: 1,320
    Burien.
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    It didn't take very long before this thread degenerated. Good provocative thread Bob. I suspect the only real enforcable rule is to simply close rivers down. Let them heal. 7 to 10 years later let the carnage start all over.

    My appolgies to everyone for being a grump.
  17. James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    Posts: 2,787
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    Cross contamination from the other hatchery thread thingy... :)
  18. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,399
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,357 / 9
    JD, good exchanging viewpoints with you today. Good to hear from you about your viewpoint. For the record, I never said you were a steelhead guide. I merely asked for your point of view, which you have provided. Thanks. Ed
  19. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,475
    Your City ,State
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    Brett Angel,

    Re: the Deschutes in OR. The ban of fishing from a boat is unrelated to steelhead fishing. I can't remember the year it began, but it was when all drift boats were made of wood, not fiberglass or aluminum. And the reason the rule was adopted was related to trout fishing. In those days, before CNR, there was a daily catch limit on trout, and anglers typically kept some trout. Prohibiting fishing from a boat created sanctuaries in the river, protecting many trout from exploitation and harvest. This ensured that there would be spawners every season, even though a generous number of trout were harvested annually. Clearly this was a time when the human population was about 1/3 of what it is today, so there were far fewer anglers.

    The regulation has persisted even though fishing regulations on harvest have changed dramatically. Whenever someone suggests removing the boat fishing ban, it gets shot down by the legion of anglers who have come to appreciate the quality of the experience that results from no one fishing from a boat. So, to reiterate, the boat fishing ban, which was once a biological issue and a conservation tool, is today a social tool relating to quality of the fishing experience and has nothing to do with fish biology or conservation.

    Sg
  20. gt Active Member

    Posts: 2,616
    sequim, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    really????? i think a great many folks in oregon, including the big D guides, would take serious issue with that statement. but, believe what you wish, makes no never mind as the fishing continues to be excellent for redsides as well as steelhead.