Batson RX6 and Single vs Snake Guides?

Discussion in 'Rod Building' started by Runejl, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. Runejl Josh

    Posts: 390
    Bellingham, Washington
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    Hey Guys,

    I am building a Batson RX6 9 foot 5 weight 4 piece rod and had a couple of questions.

    On the Batson Website they recommend using Single foot Guides- I think that I would prefer to use the snake guides.

    Guide sizing that they recommend is using four size 3 guides and four size 4 guides (All in Single Foot), what size guides would I use if I were to get Snake Guides?

    Is there a good reason to use the single foot guides?

    Also, any recommendations on color of thread to go with the blue blank? I want to use accent wraps and was thinking of a silver or white accent wrap to whatever main color I use.

    Anybody have any pictures of one of these that they have finished?

    Thanks for any help,

    Josh
  2. gbeeman Active Member

    Posts: 343
    Kennewick WA
    Ratings: +35 / 0
    Josh,

    There shouldn't be a change in guide size between single foot and snake. Some builders like single foot guides others don't. I find they are a pain in the tail to wrap and don't seem as sturdy as snake guides. My 2 cents.

    GBeeman
  3. Dr Bob Member

    Posts: 188
    Woodinville, WA
    Ratings: +11 / 0
    Hi Josh.

    I agree with what GBeeman said in terms of both the guide sizes and what he said about single foot guides. However, even though they are a pain to wrap and are not a sturdy, I use them on most of my rods except those I plan on using in saltwater and anything over a 7 wt. Single foots only have one wrap per guide so the add less stiffness and weight to the rod and more flex. I can't really prove it but us fishermen have a lot of unsubstanciated beliefs. I also prefer the cleaner look of the rod with single foots. They do bend easy going through brush.

    I have built several Rainshadow rods and I have built one on a fairly dark blue blank. I wrapped it with a medium blue thread which turned darker blue after applying epoxy and used silver trim wraps. Go with the silver, it looks much better than white when finished. I will see if I can find it to get some pictures. If it is the same model rod, it is medium action and easy to cast.

    Dr Bob
  4. chrome/22 For him there whould always be the riddle of steel

    Posts: 347
    Hurricane Ridge, WA.
    Ratings: +15 / 0

    I'd like to see your pictures as well, I'm building the same rod this Fall.


    c/22
  5. Mike Ediger Active Member

    Posts: 1,414
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +154 / 8
    I only use single foot guides the days. I have never had one come loose, I like the look better, and it is half the wraps to epoxy. I am probably not good enough of a caster to tell whether or not single vs double foots make a difference, but one of the reasons I build my own rods is because I want the lightest most responsive rod I can get, and I think single foots give me that; whether real or perceived.
  6. Rob Ast Active Member

    Posts: 1,919
    West Pugetopolis WA
    Ratings: +238 / 3
    I'm assuming the Batson rx6 rods are the forecast series. I have built several of these to donate to Jim Riggins' program with troubled youths. I think they are a great rod for the money. The ones I wrapped were from a kit that came with fish hawk royal blue (#245) thread which looked very nice after epoxy. I agree with the comment above that silver accent wraps look much nicer than white on this blank. As far as single foot vs double, I have done rods with both. I like that there are fewer wraps with single foot guides, but they are a little trickier to get started. Additionally, you need to be careful that the guides are not canted slightly off the perpendicular access in addition to not be rotated around the rod.

    * after looking through my threads for the number of the fish hawk thread I realized I have multiple spools from getting several kits. If you want one just PM me your address and I'll send it to you.
  7. LD Active Member

    Posts: 1,064
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +84 / 6
    In doing the single foot guides are you doing the lock wrap at the guide end and are you putting a couple of wraps past the guide? There is a name for the wrap but can not remember? I have some really nice thread that requires color preserver and I was told that using color perserver the epoxy does not penetrate the threads very well? Any issues with the single foot guides and durability?
  8. Mike Ediger Active Member

    Posts: 1,414
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +154 / 8
    It is called the Forhan locking wrap. I have never found the need to use it, but I am sure it works just fine. http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/forhan.html
    I don't have 20 years of experience to testify to the long-term durability of single foots, but I have built probably 12+ rods over the last 6-8 years and have never had one guide come lose or come out. Now I do make sure the epoxy fills in all the spaces around the foot, even just above the last wrap. But I have no concerns regarding the durability if it is wrapped well and the epoxy is done correctly. However, if you are concerned about it just use doubles.
    I also have never used CP, but I have also heard that it can impact how the wraps absorb the epoxy. If that is true, and depending on how high you put the epoxy over the highest wrap, then it could impact how well a single foot is held in place.
  9. LD Active Member

    Posts: 1,064
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +84 / 6
    That is the wrap I was thinking about. I have a couple of kits that I was going to wrap and they come with single foot guides so will give them a try.
    Thanks for the info.
  10. ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    Posts: 3,209
    Eagle River, Alaska
    Ratings: +112 / 0
    I've had single guides pull out, however they take half the time to wrap and I think they look super nice. I would go one size bigger than Batson says with single footers.
  11. jwg Active Member

    Posts: 559
    West Richland, WA
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    I have built on a Bateson blue blank
    Definitely silver trim, and I chose a blue green thread which turned out nicely
    I only use single foot guides for the reasons noted above - lighter and less interference with rod action

    Jay
  12. FlyinFish Active Member

    Posts: 126
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +77 / 0
    I love my single foot guides, and so does Echo on some of their rods. Like some have said, it ends up being lighter, from the guide weight itself, but mostly from the finish weight.

    You don't really need the locking wraps, especially on lighter rods, but can go ahead and do it. I can't imagine how you'd have a guide come out under normal use, or even accidentally. If it's wrapped tight and finish applied, it should be pretty darn sturdy.

    I think, and some would agree, that the single foot guides reduce line slap and contact with the rod blank, which reduces friction and directs the momentum of the cast axially, getting you better shooting.

    Note that there are light wire and slightly heavier duty single foot guides. The light weight ones can be significantly lighter than snake guides, and the others can be somewhat pricey, so just keep that in mind when selecting. For a 5wt, even the light wire ones should be fine.

    As for help on the blank color and wraps... here's a company I use for my components: acidrod.com . The owner, Mark, is a fly fisherman and also a big fan of single foot guides. Great small family business in Southern Calif. I'd give them a call, ask to talk to Mark or call back when he's around, ask him about the guides and then also ask him what he'd recommend for thread color. He knows the Rainshadow rods well and can recommend some thread. They get kind of busy sometimes, so be patient, but Mark will bend over backwards to help you out.
  13. FlyinFish Active Member

    Posts: 126
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +77 / 0
    Here's a green Rainshadow I did with single foots, wraps to match the blank, and a little different trim wrap.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    The single foots that are the best are the "Seymo Standoff" ones http://acidrod.com/fly_guides.html . I didn't use these to skimp on costs for this rod, and the ones I used work great, but for future rods, I'd splurge for the Seymos.
  14. Mike Ediger Active Member

    Posts: 1,414
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +154 / 8
    To be honest, the "standoff" guides are the only guides I have used that I didn't like. They catch and get caught up on all kind of things (sock/bag, tube, etc), can bend, and I think in the long run would have more of a chance to come loose than regular single foots (unless you are using the locking wrap I guess). Just my opinion (since I almost immediately sold the rod I put them on because I didn't like them) but I think it is the fact that they stand away from the blank, and can catch and get hooked on things, that will eventual cause stress on the foot wrapped on the blank. Not only that but I thought they looked strange. So "best" is a matter of opinion. I prefer single foot light wire recoils. I think they are the lightest, will spring back to shape, and look good. But again, that is just my preference.
  15. Ryan Higgins Active Member

    Posts: 304
    East Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +33 / 0
    You shouldnt ever have a guide pull out unless it was improperly wrapped and/or epoxied. They guide should be well deformed before it pulls out of the finished wrap.

    I prefer single foot for many of the reasons listed above. The guide itself is lighter. The amount of thread nad epoxy is less than snakes, lighter. There is less contact with the blank by the guide feet keeping the slower action. My only issue with the small single foot guides is that they are so damn close to the blank I always end up with epoxy in the ring next to the blank. I never have this issue with standoff gear guides on other rods I build unless I foolishly apply too much epoxy.