Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Sourdoughs, Aug 16, 2011.
Darling, don't argue with me in front of the children.
I disagrre completely. The fact is,we own 190 feet of beach and are taxed on every inch. You think they're going to reduce my tax bill if they take away my beach rights? Think again, my friend. I pay for the right to own and control that property. God, don't get me started.
An add if you don't mind: We own to the "mean" low tide line. That's the average for those who don't remember their math (no disrespect intended). Think of it this way and I've written this at least three other times in similar posts. If you owned a corn field and a bunch of hunters started hunting pheasant on your land before or without your permission, what would you do? Would you allow them to do it or would you politely or not so politely, ask them to get their asses off the property?
"Someone needs to take the Washington tidewater access issue to the highest court." -Bob Triggs
Seriously Bob? Can you elaborate?
There is absolute accuracy to the claims that there is one woman putting up ropes, raising a stink, and involving the sheriff's dept. That said there are some super generous fisherman whom have worked their whole lives to live there. One in particular, has been absurdly generous about public access to his beach. And I do mean his beach. He is taxed an ungodly amount to live there, to the tune of thousands a month. And when "BENNYSBUDDY" makes claims about the rich people not even using their beach but 'freaking out' when others use it - I wonder if he'd still be sitting there enjoying a cold one while the sheriff pushes people back off his place?
It's not all that comfortable when there's 30+ people in your front yard swinging buzz bombs, when asked to make room so that you might throw one or two - being told "its awfully crowded". Or your grandkids are pushed off the beach. Conversely, what's he going to do when the sheriff does push everyone back, sit down there in front of everyone who's been pushed away - that's a day-killer too.
The depressing reality today is that "choosing to believe the best in people" leads to being grossly taken advantage of.
The sheriff told those homeowners that if they didn't give "written permission" to the trespassers, just as in hunting, the sheriff would be enforcing the public access and trespassing laws. The land owners along that beach have had to put up with litter, car alarms going off at 4am, driveways being blocked, roads being blocked, cars and trucks parked on their lawns, strangers in their yard, strangers camped out 10 feet from their patio and at times using their patio, loud and foul language, trespassers threatening their dogs and them, graffiti, vandalism, and until this year- almost zero law enforcement.
Water access law is a huge area, and is hotly contested currently in many states and continues to evolve. Washington State can not presently convey tidewaters out to private citizens. However, those whose predecessors received deeds for shoreline property prior to that time from the state, or from a federal patent deed, frequently if not usually received the adjacent tidelands and do hold the right to bar persons from crossing over or upon the tidelands contained in their deed. In other places, it is illegal to bar persons seeking access to public water ways for fishing. Battles rage seemingly continuously in Montana over similar river access issues. The issues are complex, and is the type of litigation that can only be engaged in by individuals or groups with LOTS of money....like Ted Turner, etc., in the Ruby Valley, MT.
Tidelands were granted to Washington when it became a state in 1889. The state began selling off tidelands, a practice it continued until 1971 when the Legislature prohibited further sales. Private ownership of tidelands and shorelands is limited to those parcels which were sold by the state prior to 1971. Today 60% of tidelands in Washington State are privately owned:
1. American Indians are allowed to harvest from private tidelands (2nd class), a percentage of naturally occuring (not planted) shellfish.
2. The difference between 1st and 2nd class tidelands is not quality, it is distance to the city limits of an incorporated city.
3. Everyone has the right to use the surface of the waters. Period.
4. The state issues permits for buoys (sometimes) on state-owned tidelands as long as it does not interfere with boating traffic.
5. The state can and does lease tidelands.
Good in depth comments from Jim. I own
class one tidelands and am fortunate
not to have any public access points
near by. The only people that walk
my beach are neighbors or friends of
them. The unwritten rule is pick up
nothing on a beach that isn't yours
unless you ask first. Never had any
issues in 11 years but thats because
of the limited access which keeps the
I would ban the pink hunting hoards
from my beach.
Love the varied commentary. As somebody who has a family cabin on the water, I definitley land on the side of homeowner privacy. As others have said, think how you would feel if a gang of people were suddenly hanging out on the sidewalk in front of your house at all hours of the day. Just because it's a beach, doesn't mean the rules don't apply - these are people's homes. Most are not wealthy, they are homes that have been passed down or are owned by several families, so don't turn this into class warfare
I am also lucky enough to have a family friend on the beach at BP. I manage to maintain fishing priveledges by cleaning up my mess, respecting their privacy and giving them 50% of the catch (cleaned and ready to cook).
If you are looking for a private spot to fish, you'd be amazed how far a quick conversation, a $10 coffee card, 6 pack of micro-brew or some Salmon would go. I'd say that most homeowners are happy to share the beach, but when the disrespectful & obnoxious folks come out, camp all day, leave trash, etc - patience wears thin.
There is a reason many people see fisherman as dirty rednecks and don't want them/us near their property. Let's do our best to change perceptions.
No attitude, take a chill pill dude. The people who give fishermen a bad image typically fish gear and the fishermen people generally don't mind to have on their beaches are more than likely fly fishermen. There are obviously exceptions to this generalization.
I don't understand the attitude of some people that they are "entitled" to fish off any and all beaches that suit them, even if they are private. Rich property owners or other rationalizations don't matter, you DO NOT have any right or entitlement to trespass.
you're absolutely right: then, it was all peaceful. And, yes, the police have better things to do - if people could park legally, pick up after themselves, not mess with what's not there's, and not act like children, it'd be fine - fun even.
"gear fishing asshats"
good name for a fly
Anyone who knows me, knows that I am not wealthy. I've made no secret of the fact that our property, my beach, is a family property, held by our family for more than 70 years. It has been passed down through three generations and hopefully will be passed to the fourth. If you've been to that property, as anyone who attended the Pinkfest, Pink Salmon fly swap, Spey Casting demo day, or the Puget Sound Flyfishers annual picnic this year knows how we cherish the property. They also know the care we take of it and the fact that we enjoy sharing what we have with others, The also have seen the hard work we do to care for it and understand the reasons why we do what we do with it. I've made no secret that you are welcome to fish there as long as you respect the property. That goes for anyone, flyfisher or gear guy. We don't dicriminate on the basis of tools used to catch fish. But, to say we have no right to limit access as many of my Browns Point neighbors have, is to not understand rationally the rights of ownership. We pay for that right every April and October when the tax bill comes. We have to split it into two payments because it is so high and yet there are those who would say we have no right to limit access. In my way of thinking that's an immature attitude by someone who is wholely jealous of what someone else works so hard to preserve. Come on folks, wake up and smell the coffee! You wouldn't want someone camping on your front lawn. Don't knock someone who wants and deserves their privacy.
I've fished BP twice, once crossing onto private land to fish, never again for me. I really feel for the private land owners and the stressors they deal with when it comes to that portion of the general public who have no clue as to the definition of "respect". The Puget Sound area has exploded in population and with that increase there seems to be an even greater amount of increase in the number of assholes. I enjoy time on quiet waters with fishing buddies I enjoy and maybe we catch a fish once in a while. Why anyone wants to fly fish in a circus is beyond me, and way beyond my tolerance level. I think if I owned waterfront property at BP I'd hire a deputy to moonlight and enforce trespassing laws. Those individuals who had the respect to approach me for permission to fish would be offered their opportunity providing they demonstrated respect for that liberty. And, as I've posted before, a one or two pound box of See's chocolates is an appropriate expression of gratitude for access, the size of the box reflecting the size/numbers of fish landed.
When someone informs you that you are on their property and asks you to leave, if you care the least bit about access for anyone, the only thing to do is apologize and leave immediately. I've run into this more often on rivers than beaches, but more often than not folks that see you politely packing up and moving on will explain that after years of noise, litter, and generally inconsiderate behavior they've decided to deny the public access that they used to grant.
Just apologize and leave if asked to do so.