best clear intermediate sink for our cold water

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by dmoocher, Apr 8, 2007.

  1. johnmetcalfe New Member

    Posts: 153
    WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Hey
    I hear the Rio Outbound is pretty good stuff.
    Jm
  2. Les Johnson Les Johnson

    Posts: 1,590
    .Redmond, WA
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    If your lilne does not have a rear loop, by all means serve one on made from Cortland braided mono; 30-pound up to 9-weight and 50-pound for 10-14 weight. Nail knots will tighten up to a point where they cut through the line coating and slip off. Loops made from Cortland braid mono, properly installed, will never give up and slip through the guides readily. Do not confuse handmade loops with those little packages of loops that are offered at many shops.
    Cheers, and good fishing,
    Les Johnson
  3. marcopolo Member

    Posts: 87
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I realize that if someone is using a certain line, he/she will tell you that it is the best.
    I used a Rio Outbound for two years not knowing any better and switched to an SA Streamer Express last week after reading Les' post.
    The short story is that , and I stress IMHO, I like it a lot better just because it does not tangle as much as the Rio (after streching the hell out of both of them). From after one day of fishing it: 75% less tangles.
    And it shoots a whole lot better too. The running line is much stiffer and thus coils a lot better in my "Safeway Special" basket. It is a lot slicker too and slides more smoothly out of the guides.
    If you are thinking about a new line, just run to your local shop and get one!
  4. dominic7471 Member

    Posts: 225
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    i have the rio outbound and love it~
  5. Jon Borcherding New Member

    Posts: 535
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I have a Rio Outbound and it's my first line of this type so I don't know any better. :confused:
    Hey! I thought ignorance was supposed to be bliss! :hmmm:

    JonB
  6. Matthew Joyce Member

    Posts: 115
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    The Rio Outbound is 120 feet long, suggesting it will cast further than the 100 foot SA Streamer Express. I'm not saying I'lll be casting out the whole line, but the difference in length makes me wonder. Up here in BC it seems the SA clear lines have a bad rep for coiling. Is the SA Streamer Express clear tip the same formula as the other SA clear lines?
  7. marcopolo Member

    Posts: 87
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I have heard that some people are using the Outbound on 2-handed rods. That could explain the extra length.
    After 3 years of fishing the salt almost exclusivley, I have yet to meet somebody who can cast the full running line on a single handed rod. I am sure that person is out there, he/she is just hard to meet. But I suspect that the manufacturers are just trying to stroke our egos with the length thing. .
  8. ralfish Active Member

    Posts: 286
    B.C.
    Ratings: +28 / 0
    Huh? ^^^^

    There are a lot of beach casters that can readily put 90-110' out consistently with a 7 weight single hander. Having a line that is 90' or 100' long is a pain. 120' is much better and saves a guy from having to cut the head off and attaching it to a running line to avoid casting into the backing knot. You end up doing that anyways, because typically that is where the line begins to fail (just behind the head). 120' isn't about ego, just a reality for those who can cast...:thumb:
  9. marcopolo Member

    Posts: 87
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    The guys at SA are real idiots! Offering you studs, lines that are too short! Shame on them!
  10. toadthedry Member

    Posts: 207
    bainbridge island, wa, usa.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I have used rio outbound, SA streemer express, rio striper line, airflow 40 plus. The SA streemer express in my opinion is the way to go. The outbound works well the first 5 or 6 days and then the running line tangles like crazy despite repeated stretching at least to me. I have tried several outbounds and always have this problem. The streamer express has far less tangling in the running line. They make it in a slow sink intermediate. As far as the line length difference, 100 ft plus leader length is plenty long.

    Mike
  11. Matthew Joyce Member

    Posts: 115
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Mike, how did you find the Forty Plus, you didn't mention it how it performed. The running line is supposed to be top notch, but is the head an intergrated shooting head or a dramatic WF? Could you compare it to the SA line.
  12. ChrisW AKA Beadhead

    Posts: 493
    Seattle, WA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    The 40+ has a real abrupt transition from the head to the running line which may tend to snag the salad or so I heard. It is also a lot heavier than the AFTMA rating suggests and has the shortest head of the lot: 35'. It also has the weight concentrated near the rear of the head like a triangle taper which is exactly the opposite of the Outbound which has the weight at the front. This will require a few more false casts if you strip the line in to the rod tip.

    That said I have a 40+ floater and it is a killer Spey line for Single hand spey casts. I may use it in the salt but I think I'll keep it for the rivers.

    I just lost an Outbound Intermediate line- left my reel at the narrows park! :beathead: Some lucky fool hopefully is enjoing it and my Orvis reel. It cast very nicely but I just replaced it with a Streamer Express for some reason. As soon as I get a chance to cast it I'll post my thoughts

    Here is the SKinny on these lines from what I've found

    Outbound: 37.5' head extreme weight forward short front taper. Weighs about a size and a half heavy for their weight rating. very thin running line.

    Forty Plus: 35' head, delta or triangle type taper (very long front taper that helps make a nice presentation and helps with Spey casts), weighs about 2 sizes heavy for the weight rating, abrupt transition to running line

    Streamer Express: 44' head 30' clear sinking section, smooth transition to running line, rated in both AFTMA ratings and grain weights so no guess work needed.

    CW
  13. Anil Active Member

    Posts: 1,051
    Tacoma, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +204 / 6
    Before I begin, a little disclaimer: We sell both Scientific Anglers and Rio lines here at the shop.
    Both the Streamer Express and Outbound are excellent choices for beach fishermen. They are slightly different and different users may find they prefer one over the other. I have chosen 3 categories where these lines differ most. I then attempted to offer information about how they differ. Finally, I’ve offered my opinion about which line, excels in each category. These are MY opinions.

    --WEIGHT:
    These lines are both integrated shooting heads. This means that they are not designed to be carried, rather the head should be held outside of the rod tip and then ‘shot’. How much of the head is held outside of the rod tip is often referred to as ‘overhang’ and is dependant on both the caster and their rod.
    Both companies market their lines by recommending a line weight and then also listing a grain weight.
    Outbound:
    WF5 = 210
    WF6 = 240
    WF7 = 275
    WF8 = 330….
    Streamer Express:
    5/6 = 200grain
    6/7 = 250grain
    8/9 = 300grain
    Now compare this with the A.F.T.M.A. standard line weight recommendations.
    Fly Line Standards
    1 Weight: 60 grains
    2 Weight: 80 grains
    3 Weight 100 grains
    4 Weight 120 grains
    5 Weight 140 grains
    6 Weight 160 grains
    7 Weight 185 grains
    8 Weight 210 grains
    9 Weight 240 grains
    10 Weight 280 grains
    11 Weight 330 grains
    The recommendations from Rio are typically THREE full sizes heavier than a standard line. Scientific Anglers recommend slightly less weight, than Rio. Unfortunately, there are fewer choices from S.A. I really like the Streamer Express lines, but sometimes it can be difficult to match the lines with certain rods.
    Advantage: Rio

    --HEAD LENGTH:
    I’m not even going to comment on the overall length of these lines. If you are able to cast more than 100’ while wading on an angled beach, you probably suffer from other problems like having too much money and a girlfriend who is too pretty and can’t get enough of you. My heart goes out to all of you.
    The ‘head’ of a streamer express line is 32 feet long. The head of an Outbound line is 37.5 feet. If you are casting off of a particularly steep beach you won’t have to carry as much with the Streamer Express as you do with the Outbound. Alternatively, if you shoot 40’ of line with each brand, the Outbound will cast 5' further.
    Advantage: Neither

    --RUNNING LINE:
    Given that you know how to stretch your line and manage it with a stripping basket, both lines should perform well. But, the Streamer express line is less likely to tangle for several reasons. First off, the running line is slightly larger in diameter. Secondly it is stiffer, and less likely to knot on itself. The intermediate line on the Streamer Express is also slightly slicker than the floater on the Outbound.
    If you are not using a stripping basket, the Rio’s floating running line is less likely to get caught in debris and rocks. But…what are you doing without a stripping basket?!?!?
    Advantage: Scientific Anglers
    As you can see, I’ve elected to ride the fence and not declare a winner. I use both lines for my personal fishing. If you don’t want both, buy the one that fits your needs best.
    Anil
  14. Matthew Joyce Member

    Posts: 115
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Great post Anil, very informative. I'm currently looking for a beach line and while I've ruled out the Rio Outbound and Striper but I'm debating whether the Streamer Express or the Forty Plus is a more appropriate line. Is the "handling line" portion of the head floating? If so, thats not so good for fishing in the waves, right? I'm guessing the floating running line doesn't have as much buoyancy because its so thin and thus gives you a straighter connection between you and the fly. Am I correct here?
  15. Anil Active Member

    Posts: 1,051
    Tacoma, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +204 / 6
    The entire Streamer express is intermediate (at least the 'clear' version). The last time I used a 40 plus line it was configured identically to the Outbound (a floating running and handling line, with an intermediate head.)
    You are correct that the models that feature a floating running line (Outbound, 40 plus) don’t suffer much in terms of forming a strait connection. The very thin, floating running line is quickly pulled under by the intermediate section.
    Anil
  16. Matthew Joyce Member

    Posts: 115
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    I'm going to make up my mind between the Streamer Express Clear and the Fort Plus Saltwater tomorrow. Any last comments? Does one cast farther? Customer service? Warentee?

    Appreciate it,
    Matt
  17. ChrisW AKA Beadhead

    Posts: 493
    Seattle, WA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Just cast my SE 200grain for the 1st time, nice casting line. I found the line tended to kink and coil, and required stretching evrytime I reeled up, kind of a drag. Never knotted up on me though which is a plus. Caught some fish so I guess I'm happy with my choice.:clown:

    CW
  18. Matthew Joyce Member

    Posts: 115
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    So are you saying the Airflo has the best running line? And just to be clear, is it the Forty Plus Saltwater (blue/green running line) or the Forty Plus Extreme Distance (yellow running line I think).
  19. Tom Palmer Member

    Posts: 155
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    I bought a Rio Intermediate Outbound line this spring for my 6 weight and have mixed feelings about it after 10 or so outings.

    I think perhaps Rio went too far in an attempt to make this an extreme casting line. The running line is so small it certainly helps in perfect conditions to make a long cast, as the line provides minimal resistance running through the guides, but under fishing conditions I'm not getting the distance I'd expect.

    First, the small running line for me tangles like crazy. Even when I stretch the heck out of it, I'd estimate one out of every four casts results in a tangle. And I ALWAYS use a stripping basket. I'm already fearing my response when I lose my first fish due to a tangle in that thin line.

    Second, this line is a killer on my stripping fingers. I've found a stripping guard is a MUST for me with this line. I received two of the worst cuts I've ever gotten from a line when I first started using it. One of them looked like someone dragged a knife across my finger. I'd expect this from gel-spun, but not from an integrated 6-weight fishing line. I'm curious if the SA has this issue.

    I'm a big Rio fan. I use their floating lines, and really like the DeapSea 400 and 500 grain integrated lines when I head to Loreto.

    But for me, I've been a little disappointed in the Outbound, especially considering the $70 price tag.

    Tom
  20. Denny Active Member

    Posts: 4,021
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +38 / 0

    So, what did you do? And how do you like it? :confused: