Best type of Spey rod for beginner

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Tom Arroll, Jan 11, 2008.

  1. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Not to be a smartass, but if you've never cast one before, buy whatever you want. With no bad habits, no prior rod knowledge or feel for different actions, the rod you buy will be the rod you learn on and it will feel good. It's all you will know. So what the hell, call Burkheimer or Meiser and get a piece of art. I am partial to them for many reasons, but you need to buy what you feel good with. Then get a good mentor or instructor to teach you the right way and you'll love the rod. By then again once you figure it out, you'll love your Echo, your Snowbee, your Sage, your Loomis, your Scott, your Winston, your C&D your ????????? Get the picture. Just make sure you know what time of year, what species and what application you are aiming at. For jack of all trades i go fishing once a week guy a Skagit capable rod (MKS or Burky or about a dozen others) with tips is pretty hard to beat both for effeciency and easyness to learn. Just a thought. Coach
     
  2. Mike Rupp

    Mike Rupp New Member

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    Not to be a smartass Coach Duff, but I take you to be the kind of guy that would marry a woman without sleeping with her first and then get divorced later when you found out she wasn't what you expected. :)
     
  3. hendersonbaylocal

    hendersonbaylocal Member

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    Something wrong with that? :beer2:
     
  4. Will Atlas

    Will Atlas Guest

    luckily divorces from spey rods are alot less messy than those from women. it just involves posting a classified add, putting the rod in the mail and buying a new one. Try before you buy though man. I've got a SAGE 8139 which is my second rod. I would say the rod is good to learn on but also has a relatively high ceiling in terms of performance, I plan on using it for a long time

    Will
     
  5. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    I don't often agree with Coach ;), but I do in this case. I am not sure what someone who knows nothing about speycasting can learn by going out and trying 3, 5, a dozen or however many rods before buying a stick he wants to learn on. I know if I had done that it would have meant nothing to me. I think if you go to a good spey shop, let them know you are a beginner, and what your price point is you have to trust that they will put you into something that will work. You will almost certainly end up with a set up that fits the general description that Poppy and others on this thread offered up. I do think it is important to get advice from someone who knows what they're doing, and dealing with shops like the Red Shed, River Run Anglers, AATF (and I'm sure others) increases the odds that you will end up with a stick you can learn on. I think this whole notion that you have to find a rod that matches your casting style is a bit of a red herring when you don't have one (i.e., casting style). Plus, with work, anyone should be able to learn how to cast a rod of any action, as long as its properly matched with the right line (and that is where most of us need the help - picking the right line). People who gravitate to one action or another will, when making that next purchase, go to the rod that best approximates the type of action they like, but that doesn't mean that a person who prefers a medium action, full flexing rod to a fast action rod can't figure out how to cast the faster rod, as long as he's willing to put in the work. At least that's my personal experience.
     
  6. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Or Rupp, you could think you know about marriage, "try the woman out" (The ladies love that kind of talk) realize she is great in the sack and get married. 5 years later you realize that when you are not having sex you can't stand each other. And you get divorced anyways. But with a spey rod, if you know nothing about spey casting, you can learn to love the rod in both the sack (Skagit style, down and dirty, low and slow, sinking that tip in the "bucket" ) and while interacting at home (dry line, up on the surface, a bit superficial in nature, but warm and comfortable in the relationship. Maybe even setting up for an afternoon nap together in the sun." Not to be a smartass though.:beer2:Duff
     
  7. Mike Rupp

    Mike Rupp New Member

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    Let me get this straight, are you guys advocating not trying a rod before purchasing? So if the opportunity is there to try a rod, you think its better to go to a fly shop and just trust their judgment?

    I just don't understand this kind of logic. Sure, there are plenty of guys out there that live nowhere in the vicinity of someone who lends out rods to try. I fully understand rolling the dice there, but this guy lives in Seattle. He is a whopping 30 minute drive from more rods than you could even want to cast.

    To each his own.
     
  8. FLGator

    FLGator Member

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    If you don't know, you don't know.

    Trusting the judgment of a first rate spey shop to get you set up with a balanced outfit, based on what you think you like, and then getting out there and learning is ok.
     
  9. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Easy Big Mike. He can try all the rods he wants. But since he can't cast one, and doesn't know shit about spey casting he'll probably buy one for the color scheme or what some shop salesman tells him he needs. All we are saying is that is doesn't matter right now. The one that he buys is the one he will learn on, become proficent with and catch fish with. His world is wide open right now.:beer2:Duff
     
  10. Denny

    Denny Active Member

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    iagree I usually am a big proponent of 'try before you buy', but I would agree in this instance. Because I am in the same situation.

    I am a pretty fair hand with a single hand stick, but wouldn't be able to tell a fair spey rod from a good spey rod from a great spey rod. I would trust to someone's advice, like Aaron's, and learn on that stick. You all know how long we don't keep our rods any more, so it's not like the dude will likely keep the rod for a long time, anyway, or want to.

    My first premium single hand stick as a Loomis IMX. I cut my fly casting teeth on it, and it was a great stick. I had it built, and had never cast one before I bought the kit. Wasn't a problem, because I didn't have the casting skills at the time to determine if there were any problems.

    I think a person could feel relatively confident that they will be acquiring a nicely-performing rod if what they purchase is a relatively upper end model from a reputable manufacturer. I would apply that logic to single hand rods, and I'm guessing it might have some validity with spey rods, too.
     
  11. Abel1

    Abel1 New Member

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    I would have to agree with coach Duff and Richard. Just be prepaired to start all over again because your casts will not be coming anytime soon.
    And Richard, I still own my 10' 5wt. IMX. Great rod!
     
  12. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    iagree

    But as the Brit's would say: 'there are horses for courses,' and I've found this to be very true with 'newbies' taking on the spey habit. There are types of rod actions, even properly lined, I'd never consider handing to a 'trainee.' Very fast action rods like the T & T's, some of the Winston's as an example. Your timing has to be 'dead on' to properly cast these rods.

    In new hands, all you'll get is frustration.

    Dear God, just went out for a quick smoke and the sky's turned BLACK. Next storm is headed right at Ashland/Medford and this one (snow wise) should be a corker!:eek:
     
  13. SPEYBUM

    SPEYBUM Member

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    When is comes to trying before you buy I just took a note from the used car dealers. In 1995 when I started the Day On The River Program there was on one letting any on use any of their equipment unless it was a fly school and then only when they were in class.
    I like tweaking things and letting people try rods and learn to cast before they bought just made sense to me.
    So I started sending lines and rods out to customers all over the place and letting my students take the rods to practice on in-between times. You know what< I have not looked back!
    If you do not like what some one is saying about a rod go out and give it a go.
    You have two ways to do this one is to buy and the other is to try it.
    I will be the first to state that I do not have every rod built and this not for lack of trying. If I could I would love to have every rod that is build and every line but I do not.
    Allowing for the great diversity of casters and Speyrods today no one could make a general statement all the rods of a brand are great.
    Some of the rods are better than others to some casters and other are not.
    It comes from personal preface and how skill you see your self as a caster.
    If you were obsessed with the Speycast like I am you would be collecting rods one after another just to compare the differences (If you are I hold Speycasters Anonymous Meetings every Saturday On the River.)Rest assured if you look long enough and hard enough you will find the rod, line and casting style that fits you and your life style.
    My $.02 worth
     
  14. Sloan Craven

    Sloan Craven Active Member

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    But how would that help a beginner caster? A beginner hasn't developed their style yet.
     
  15. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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  16. Steelie Mike

    Steelie Mike Active Member

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    I would suggest finding someone you trust such as Aaron or Poppy who can point you in the right direction in regards to a spey rod that can cast a multitude of different lines that does not break the bank to start with. This way you can learn how to cast and then move on and try other styles of casting. As stated by others, casting a mutitude of different rods is a waste of time unless you can have access to them everytime you want to get out. You never know, you might not even get into spey casting as much as you might think and you do not want to shell out a couple grand on something that just sits in the closet.
     
  17. fredaevans

    fredaevans Active Member

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    "And there in hangs the rub." What 'they' do is develop very bad casting habits (for a lack of a better term). When they do get a lesson (or two) from a competent instructor he/she will spend a great deal of time unwinding them. bawling:

    Been there, personally, and I've had to spend a lot of time on the river 're-teaching' folks how to 'do it right'.:beathead: I'd far rather take someone whose never cast a 2-hander and start from scratch. Remember, like casting a single hander, muscle memory/timing/technique is key.

    If 'the key' doesn't fit the lock ..........:hmmm:
     
  18. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    This is to the OP;

    My advice from a practical standpoint, seeing the number of times people list their rods in the for sale section of WFF shortly after picking up a different style of casting, I would suggest a switch rod as a possibility. That way if you are out you can spey, but if you already are an efficient caster you will still be able to fish effectively as you learn the basics of the spey movements.

    I am not telling you to not buy a spey rod, but instead maybe to consider a slightly different alternative.
     
  19. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    I think Aaron has nailed it. A newbie may not know how to spey cast but it has been my experience that if you take them to the river and let them try several different matched outfits they will usually find one or two that are more pleasing to them. It may well be how the rod/reel/line looks but often as not one or two of those outfits will feel better in their hands. A person will be a better student if they have tackle they feel comfortable with, tackle "they like" if you will.

    You guys seemed to be hooked on the marriage thing in this thread so using that idea, neither the sleep with her before you tie the knot or the get married first crowd would most likely do the deal with a girl they didn't feel good to be around.

    A good fly shop will be a dating service, a marriage counceler, and in some instances a divorce court judge.
     
  20. Kevin Giusti

    Kevin Giusti New Member

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    "a good fly shop will be a dating service...." Classic. Good one Mike. You may be on to something there. You can host a new gameshow "the speymatch game'.
    " A beginning speycaster is setup on a series of dates with five totally different spey rods. Will he choose the fast action, european beauty with all the hip new components or the sexy new scandi rod for the tight loops she throws. Or maybe he will go for the old traditional slower action rod cause being a gentleman he prefers to take it slow. Tune in next time and find out!"
    I think everyone has there points. Yeah a beginner wont necesarily know what style of casting and what lines he will prefer. But in classes I have taken I have seen people struggling with a rod/line and when the instructor gave them a different setup you could see a big improvement, even in just there confidence and attitude towards learning. And I personally have had this happen to me also :thumb: BUT notice I said INSTRUCTOR@!!! Just like marriage and dating youve got to play the field before you find that perfect match. Fortunatly with speyrods/lines once a good match is found WE CAN STILL KEEP PLAYING , and it wont lead to a divorce!!:beer2: Kevin
     

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