Better way to tie a nail knot

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by skeith5, Aug 8, 2001.

  1. skeith5

    skeith5 New Member

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    Just wanted to share something I came up with (that I'm sure lots of other people have come up with). When you tie a nail knot use a small straw (coffee stirrer works great). After you have made your wraps just insert the line into the straw and pull the straw out. I think it works much better than an ol stinky nail.

    Scott
     
  2. Peterp

    Peterp New Member

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    Pete Pilkey
    Hi Scott,
    Sounds like you are progressing along with the knot business.
    Save yourself a lot of trouble and go get a knot tool. cost you five bucks or so, but so much easier.
    The nail knot is the best knot to use for your tapered leaders also. When you get down below 2 or 3x for tippets it will make all the difference in the world.
    The blood knot is about 2nd best but not as durable as the nail knot. The barrel knot is weakest with the small tippets and even less durable. By that I am saying it wears itself out with casting and will break or separate when you least expect it.
    The knot tool makes it easy to tie on a sliding dropper, or you can leave one tag end real long when add a tippet, and use it for a dropper. Pay attention to these little details, and you will be way ahead. I guide guys all the time, and knots are the biggest weakness in most skill levels. When you are dealing with heavy leader material you have room for error, but not so when you get down to the smaller tips. Good luck
    Peterp
     
  3. skeith5

    skeith5 New Member

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    Pete,

    Which river or rivers do you guide? I want to catch more fish and need to learn. I'm reading lots of books but nothing makes up for good one on one training.

    Scott
     
  4. Peterp

    Peterp New Member

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    Pete Pilkey
    Scott,
    I really dont call myself a guide, but try to fancy myself as a Teacher. I live on Potholes reservoir, and I fish the columbia basin most of the time, but my card says "Have Rod Will Travel".
    I usually work on Rocky Ford Creek, and am most known for that water. I am retired Seattle Fire, and have fished a good portion of the Westside waters, with most expertise being in warmwater Fisheries. I dont find the Stream fishing for trout on the West side to my liking, other than Steelhead and Searun Cutts, but its so hit and miss, I moved to Eastern Wash to live out my retirement. I have been Studying Rocky Ford for about 3 yrs, and It is really fun. I plan to spend more time this winter on the Crab Creek drainage over here. This is totally unexplored, and from a little research, it is really gonna be good. If you are interested, Email is ptrthntr@gemsi.com. Things are hot and tough right now, and Lots and Lots of snakes out now, but it is year around fishery.
    Peterp
     
  5. Midasfly

    Midasfly New Member

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    Hey Scott, take mine and my husbands word for it, Pete only gives GREAT advise, and thanks to him (Hi, Pete, it's Ross & Dawn) we went to Dry Falls & Rocky Ford completely blind and we had the fishing weekend of a lifetime! Pete knows his stuff and I print out ever comment he makes on this forum (hope it's ok Pete) and we put it in a book we've made under the appropriate water's he's referring too! I can't tell you what a valuable tool he had been in our 1st year of exploring Washington waters! Both my husband and I pray that we can speak of local waters the way he can when we grow up (hmm???? with that happen????) Anyways, I also ready your comments about your wife not fishing, and I am telling you what, once she has the ultimate "fish-take-fly" rush, there is NO TURNING BACK!!! And my husband and I have to BEST relationship all because of Fly Fishing and how close it has brought us! Good Luck, and Pete, thanks again for ALL the great advise, because just when you might think you're only talking to one person, THE HARDLEY'S ARE THERE!

    FISH ON,
    Dawn and Ross Hardley
     
  6. Peterp

    Peterp New Member

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    Pete Pilkey
    Hey You Guuys!
    Good to see youre out and about. Thanks for the Kudo's, you made my day.
    Here's something everybody might be interested in:
    A few weeks ago, one of the Women I had been working with suggested that a "Bed and Breakfast" type package would be a real treat for flyfishing couples. I contacted one in Ephrata, just 5 minutes from Rockyford, and they were thrilled with the idea too. They said they had a lot of couples stay there to fish the area, so they now refer them to me, and I refer people to them.
    Its a really nice place, an old church, gourmet breakfast, and really nice proprieter.
    Call: Ivy Chapel Inn, 509 754 0629.
    They are booked heavily on weekends through fall because of the concerts at the Gorge at George, but usually have openings in the mid week.
    Check it out and let me know if you want to get with me. This place gets rave reviews.
    Also, Chris and I are working on me having a Page of some sort up here. We havent figured out just what yet, but I would be interested to know what people out there want. I would aim it at the Basin, with up to date info and reports. Rockyford would be the focal point of it, and I would like to get data to compile on the fishing in the stream besides my own research.
    Let chris and I know, and we will come up with something.
    Peter
     
  7. Peterp

    Peterp New Member

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    Pete Pilkey
    Peter again Dawn, I forgot to tell you how right you are about Women fly fishers. Most of my clients are Women who have husbands that fish, and they get with me to learn. I enjoy the gals so much, because they listen and are much easier to break bad habits. Usually, they get better than Hubby.
    You should see the look on those faces when they have that first fish on fly smile. Its better than the Aurora Borealis.
    Peter
     
  8. Dan Reynolds

    Dan Reynolds Member

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    Try using a triple surgeons knot to attach tippet to leader. You can tie this one blindfolded and they rock! Very solid knot, never fails and much easier than a nail knot or blood knot. I never use my knot tool...click the link below to see how to tie it.

    http://www.aristotle.net/~tcworno/surgeons.htm
     
  9. skeith5

    skeith5 New Member

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    I use a fishermans knot? I think that's what you call it, there's also a double fishermans knot... does anybody use this?

    Scott Keith
    scott.keith@wamu.net
     
  10. Peterp

    Peterp New Member

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    Pete Pilkey
    Hey guys, try tieing some knots that dont come with the fly lines. All the stuff you are talking about comes from salt water for the most part. When you are dealing with 20 to 12 lb test lines or leaders, all this stuff works great. When you get down to the light stuff, its very critical. If you fish once a week, and tie a new tippet on every time, these knots might hold up for an hour or so. I fish every day for months at a time, and these knots just dont cut it. I've got my system down to where I can fish the same tippet for days. I fished bass tournaments all over the US, and the same holds true there too. When the money is on the line, you better know what you are talking about. The stuff that comes in the line box is being related to you by salesmen. Have you ever received a free box of line from some company, or advice from some guy who got that same box of line who then claimed "I'm a Field Tester", and this is what I say.
    You are taking advise from storekeepers folks. In the months or evenings that you dont fish, get some different knots and tie them over and over, and compare them. Some stuff really works good on dry land in your living room, but when you add water, you find it wasnt the ultimate. All monofilament isnt created equal, so dont fall for the funny ads. Thats a whole different catagory, which fishermen will argue for ever. You have to do what works for you, but dont quit learning and experimenting. When you read an article check out the thing the author is telling you, but try it on the water lots of times before you start telling everyone how great it is. Funny how new stuff out of last weeks magazine shows up at the fly club as the "good old Such and Such". Hey I can read too.
    Easiest isnt always best. Spend some time on the water with it first. Listen to others reccomendations, and I hope that some of it will work for you, but check it out first under real conditions, and never stop trying to find a better way. In the 45 plus years I have fly fished, I've seen everything come and go as a fad several times, each new generation of fishermen goes through what you are talking about here, so about 20 years from now, you will be me, please be kind.
    Peter P
     
  11. skeith5

    skeith5 New Member

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    I have rock climbed for almost 10 years now using the fishermans knot to join together loops and never had any fail (thank goodness), I also use a figure eight if I'm going to use looped ends to connect the fly line and leader.

    Scott Keith
    scott.keith@wamu.net
     
  12. Peterp

    Peterp New Member

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    Pete Pilkey
    hi again Scott.
    Most of the knots used in Rock climbing etc are all used in fishing, not vice versa. The best one of all, and its variations is the figure eight. It is the only knot that doesnt cut against itself, thats why its used at very high stress levels. I have used a variation of the figure eight to tie to leader to fly for about 30 yrs, I keep looking for something better, but cant come up with one. I will try and get a picture made up of what it looks like and see if we can get it posted.
    peterp
     
  13. n1507l

    n1507l New Member

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    About this whole knot discussion...I guided in remote Alaska for several years and I agree that knots make all of the difference. "Typical" and "easy" knots hold up OK for a while, but the test is over time, TEMPERATURE and with big fish as you go to smaller tippets. The ol' double surgeon works great until you tie down to below 2 or 3x. Then I've experienced that the knot on the last part of the leader is the weakest point in the whole system. Stick with the nail knot or the blood knot and you're all right.

    I also agree that a knot-tying tool is ideal. You can get really creative to make "difficult" knots easy.

    Also, if anyone is thinking about an Alaska trip, let me know and I'd be happy to give you the insider's scoop!
     
  14. 7x

    7x New Member

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    Hey Gang,

    Here's an interesting knot I saw in a book. I haven't experimented with it yet, but the author swears by it. Like someone, maybe Pete, said in this thread....try it yourself and see what you think. I'm excited to give it a go.

    7x
     

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