Box is stocked! (sort of)

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Brandon4455, Apr 22, 2014.

  1. Finished up my "spring tying" for the lakes! the time is upon us and having a good stock of flies (still not even close to enough if you ask me but will do for now) is a good idea. Always gotta be prepared, this is just a general range of patterns i know work in colors that hatch where i fish, plus the experimental pattern here and there. Just bought more bobbers and swivels,too. i'm such a dirty bobber fishermen ;)




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    -Brandon
     
  2. Very nice!
     
  3. That'll do pig, that'll do. For a start anyway. Now work on some different sizes. You most likely already know this and probably have your reasons for placing the flies in the box the way you do, but just in case the slots are designed to trap the bend of the hook. So sliding the hooks in the opposite direction so they are easy to pull out and they don't then ruin the foam. Then again they are far less likely to fall out this way.
     
  4. Swivels? What the heck are you guys using swivels for?
     
  5. gene, swivels have many benefits, but the main reason is weight. really good way to get your chironomids down quicker,especially when fishing deeper water.It also does a great job of keeping the leader perfectly straight in the water column so your flies are in better relation to the bobber. you've never used swivels for bobber fishin'?

    ira, yeah i am aware i put them in wrong but for the exact reason you specified. it's a double sided fly box and has my river flies in the opposite side, i figured i would secure the flies as best i could, i hike and fish a lot of coast range streams and often hop from rock to rock or have to climb stuff, so my flies will tend to fall out and get all mixed up if i don't secure them good.
     
    Patrick Gould likes this.
  6. Nope. Never used swivels. I use two flies and knots.

    I can't bring myself to use both a bobber and spin gear swivels ... even I have limits :D
     
  7. hahaha. i don't blame you gene, i know a good amount of people that would cringe at the sight of a swivel on a fly rod, but i wont question it.. works great! ;)
     
  8. I've used swivels with my lipped bait fish imitations when fishing for bass. They are required so the "fly" moves from side to side instead of spinning when retrieving.

    I'm not exactly sure where a swivel comes in for indicator fishing. We've always used a heavy pattern or split shot at the bottom of the tippet material and then a lighter weight midge emerger pattern as the upper dropper or target fly. I've never really had a problem with the presentation. The weighted fly or split shot normally drops the patterns directly below the indicator and at a right angle.

    Maybe I'm missing something really important with the swivel aspect.

    But for heavens sake.... most spin swivels are larger than the size of the midge emerger patterns I'm using!!! Sheesh. I'm trying to imagine the set up you guys use. No wonder you need a larger bobber to keep it from sinking due to the weight below the sucker! :D
     
  9. I would advise moving away from using a swivel for what you mentioned. You are better off using two flies with tungsten beads. Swivels if not used correctly will interfere with the sliding of your slip indicator system but more importantly you'll end up with some false positives with your indicator. You may think that your missing takes, but in reality the fish are eating your swivel. They are likely to now know that something is up and therefore less likely to stick around in the area to find the real flies. Although I have heard that some people use the false positive as one more way of deciding where the fish are staging, but I think it would be near to impossible to tell the difference between a missing a fish taking your fly versus missing a fish that took your swivel.
     
  10. thats why i use black swivels, fish can still see em' but i'm sure they are less appealing than silver or gold. i definitely get what you are saying but i think ill keep my rig the way it is, it seems to be doing just fine ;) i will also add the swivels i use are small crane swivels, not big super heavy flashy swivels you see gear guys use.





    -Brandon
     
  11. If it works for you guys, don't change a thing!
     
  12. This is the system I use. Where does the swivel come in to play?

    Untitled-2.jpg
     
    Tacoma Red and Ron McNeal like this.
  13. i can't find any good photos, but ill try to explain. butt end of leader (usually 2x) >swivel > 4ft of 4x > point fly> 2ft of 4x >dropper fly. swivels are also easier to cast than split shot and tangle less, at least for me.
     
    Ron McNeal likes this.
  14. I don't get it. I'll search The Internet to see if I can find a diagram. The split shot I use is the smallest they make (smaller than BB size) so it isn't any more difficult to cast than a swivel. But normally, I don't find that I need one. The two patterns with bead heads normally add enough weight for the patterns to sink at a right angle to the surface.

    I'm trying to figure out the value of the swivel. How does it change the presentation of the patterns vs knots?
     
  15. Gene, maybe it is just personal preference.There may not even be an advantage to it, i think there is but who knows. Thats just the way i was taught, ive tried going without a swivel with and without split shot and it just doesn't seem as smooth and effective to me.If you watch a lot of stillwater videos on youtube you will see Brian Chan, Phil Rowley, and other pros also use swivels.im sure if you browse some videos you will find the answer. I'm far from knowing what im talking about, i just know it works so i wont mess with it haha.One thing different about your rig besides not having a swivel is both of my flies are tied inline on non slip loop knots.

    we will have to fish bobbers one of these days and compare.
     
    Steve Kokita likes this.
  16. GAT that Davy Wotton setup in diagram looks like I would be spending time untangling leader not fishing I'll stick to my swivel I like to used non beaded flies too
     
  17. One day last year I used three rods with indicators. I use 10 feet of 12 lb fluoridation, a size 14 black swivel, and then 4 or so feet of 4x topper material. Two of the rods had flies attached. The third rod did not. All 3 swivels were set at the same depth. After counting more than 20 grabs total on the three rods, the score was flies 20+ and swivel only 0.

    I therefore think that black swivels are seldom feeding targets. Silver rings are another matter.
     
    jwg likes this.
  18. Hi Gene, I'll share my thoughts about the use of swivels, but understand I am in no way suggesting that my way of thought about this method is the, "end all" method. It's just what I have evolved too with experimentation over time. From comments on a similar thread here recently, it's clear that other successful vertical presentation anglers employee slightly different methods.

    For me, when I fish vertical my highest priority is to see the bite. Not all bites result in a bobber plunging for the depths! In fact (as observed in gin clear water), sometimes fish will, "lick", "taste", "test" the pattern by swimming up to it, stopping, swimming around the pattern, then sometimes suck it in, then spit it right back out only to continue the process over and over until either losing interest, or deciding to eat it. The best chance of hooking fish that "work" your pattern is to visually see that it's happening in the first place.

    So, with the above paragraph in mind, I strive to build my setup to give me the best chance of detection from those light biting fish. My thought is that while fishing vertical the angler has the best chance of detecting the bite if the leader is held as taut, and vertical as possible. Any coiling affect in the leader will lead to light bites not being seen by the angler. If there is any current (and there is in some "stillwater" situations), or when fishing perpendicular to the wind then the leader and pattern are pulled at an angle, and bounced around with inconsistent slack created in the leader. The best chance of keeping the leader taut, and as close to vertical as possible is by weighting the leader. Swivels are a clean way of adding the weight. Swivels allow good tie points, are strong and durable for their size, and allow a method of creating a leader system that is modular depending on the knots you build your system with.

    I don't choose to build as much weight as I could into my patterns. My feeling is the fish are more likely to hold onto the pattern longer if the pattern is as light as possible, yet perform like I need them to. Some weight is of course necessary to keep the tippet taut.

    As for the bobber, (indicator if you like) I like the bobber to be small enough to absorb some of the wave action and dampen the bounce at the pattern when the chop gets a little tall. I also feel that on a good take the fish are less likely to let go of the pattern as quickly (were talking nano-seconds) with less resistance felt by pulling the bobber under. In other words, giving me the best chance to react and strike on the take.

    So here is my summary of a setup that works well for ME. Bobber just large enough to float my rigging but that rides low in the water. Heavy swivel to keep the main length of leader taut & vertical. Brass bead patterns (not tungsten & lead) to keep the patterns lighter and more animated in small chop.

    I can't prove any of what I say to be an absolute fact. I do what I do based on much experimentation and what works for me, nothing more.

    Here is the type swivel I like to use. If we are counting respected anglers who also use this style swivel you can count Chan as one. Of course, Chan, Rowley, and others in the industry have to take care of the sponsors in their media work, but what they actually use may be a different story.

    If I had to guess, I would say the great majority of anglers using swivels in their leader setups DO NOT use as heavy of swivels as I do. Fair enough?

    Rolling Barrel Swivel
    http://p-line.com/tackle/swivels/hi-speed-rolling-trebel

    Bye the way Gene, since you are an Oregonian, know that the use of swivels are illegal in Oregon's "Fly Fishing Only" waters. I called and discussed this with a State Trooper. He consulted with ODFW, & other game enforcement then called me back with the answer that swivels would be against the law in Fly Fishing Only waters.



    Randy
     
    Drifter likes this.
  19. Randy, I do know that they can not be used in FF only fisheries in Oregon. Most likely, that's why I never started using swivels.

    I thought there was some magical advantage to using swivels that I couldn't figure it out.. evidently it is an alternative to adding some manner of weight so I now I think I get it.

    I suppose if the bobber system I use didn't work for me, I'd look into using swivels but to tell you the truth, when using a bobber, I prefer the use of one fly and if I'm not fishing FF only waters, I'll use one of the small split shot... I have no trouble casting split shot .... guess that comes from using the stuff as often as I do when steelhead fishing :D

    Thanks for all the replies. Now I think I get it. Chances are, I'll stick with my knots and small split shot if needed... I'm too set in my ways to change a set up just for the hell of it when I can see no advantage. :p

    (BTW: when you're bobber fishing, you're sitting and watching more often than you are casting so what's the big deal about casting tiny split shot? If you're casting so often that you're worried about the effects of split shot -- you're not properly bobber fishing :))
     
  20. For me, my swivel setup is reusable and consistent with regard to placement of components (I have OCD). I tie loop-to-loop for all connections down to the flies themselves (2-flies majority of the time). At the end of the day (if I'm heading home) I diassemble all my leader components and place each section in a marked little zip-lock bag. I have main leaders pre-built (looped) in graduated lengths to cover different water depths. I have my tippet that runs below my swivel pre-cut, looped on one end, and bagged. I have pairs of patterns pre-tied together and bagged. I have my three different swivel sizes bagged. If I break-off, or get tangled-up and have to rebuild my setup, I can get it done very quickly.

    Look up, "anal" in the dictionary and you will see my picture there. :)


    Randy
     

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