Bridge collapse

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by KerryS, May 23, 2013.

  1. If this be the case( and I believe it is), then we MUST take money out of politics or we will continue to spiral toward a third world economy.
  2. I do live in this area and after being out and about yesterday all the "other ways to go" have been discovered by tens of thousands...shit gonna be fucked up for awhile!
  3. This certainly looks like a "shovel ready job"... it will be interesting to see if there is action behind all the campaign promises. Hopefully not all of the stimulus funds have been pissed away yet and some can be directed to this. Lugan, much as it pains me to say it, is spot on...way too much energy and resources spent assuring survival of a political party...we really need to find someone who can find middle ground.

    I'd love to spend more time reading this threads twists and turns, but the sun is shining here in Hardin, MT and the Bighorn beckons.
    Kent Lufkin and Lugan like this.
  4. Welllll......... if they don't simply patch the damage... which is what I believe they'll do... they can always build a toll bridge to pay for the sucker. No tax increase. So, no politics involved, but I bet citizens would still toss a tissy fit... even those who don't want to pay taxes.

    Just the beginning of falling bridges. They didn't build them to last forever and they aren't. Like it or not, sooner or later you will need to start paying for new bridges one way or the other. Of course I never use that bridge so I don't want MY taxes going up :p
    Bert likes this.
  5. The words below were written in 1984 but could have been written yesterday. 'bout all that needs to be said on politics in the United States.

    By Charlie Reese
    Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
    Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?
    Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?
    You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.
    You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.
    You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.
    You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.
    You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.
    One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
    I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.
    I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.
    Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
    What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.
    The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.
    It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
    If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.
    If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.
    If the Army & Marines are in a foreign country it's because they want them in a foreign country ...
    If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.
    There are no insoluble government problems.
    Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
    Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.
    They, and they alone, have the power.
    They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.
    Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees...
    We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

    Now back to your local traffic reports.......
  6. Well, I for one, do not encourage our DOT brethern to spend our money on make work projects, and I feel we have enough legitimate projects to take care of all of the man hours that they can come up with. But consider all of the bridges that you cross each day.
    Most are older than a large precentage of the drivers that use them.
    A lot of our major freeway systems were designed and built in the 1950s. They are not going to last forever. At the cost of highway construction per mile, perhaps it is time that we took a real and
    honest look at public transportation as a means of getting from point A to point B.

    I for one, find it interesting to read about some of the gentlemen of an earlier era, taking a train to a local fishing mecca, because automobiles were not available.

    The automobile industry has served us well in the past, but really, do we need all of the vehicles that we find in our lives. We drive a block to get a bottle of milk?

    I am as guilty of being an urban driver, but I think, we, as a whole, could do better.

    I do think about this matter when ever I drive over a bridge. Even the new ones. But, I guess life is a crap shoot.
    dryflylarry and Chris Johnson like this.
  7. How about a toll bridge that only charges Canadians? :D

    Obviously the time has come for molecular teleporters... Beam me to the Henry's Fork, Scottie.
    Bert likes this.
  8. ...and Californians.
    Alex MacDonald and Bert like this.
  9. I'd gladly pony up some tax money to get in on that!
  10. Let's also be a little fair here too. If it weren't for the Republican landslide victories in 1994, there is no way that those budget surplus would have occurred. They forced Clinton and I mean forced Clinton into many things he wouldn't have done otherwise. But I give credit to Clinton to be smart enough to play along and things turned out pretty good. Not much of that happening in WASHDC these days. But Clinton was also the benefactor of receiving a very strong economy when he took the reigns and a peace dividend from the Cold War ending that resulted in a huge reduction in defense spending. Also Clinton could have continued as President in 2001 and that brief surplus would have been gone just as fast as a result of the bust and the accompanying Recession. And as far as Bush is concerned, his compassionate conservative mantra is what got him into trouble. In trying to get along with the Democrats, who trashed him anyway, he increase govt programs without paying for them. Then the wheels really fell off his last two years when the Democrats ran the House and Senate. Blame Bush for not vetoing more but it took two to tango here. But to Bush's credit he tried to correct the mortgage problem and other substantial matters only to be pistol whipped by the Democrats as he had no significant majorities to do anything at the time.
    Alex MacDonald, ribka and B.Willis like this.
  11. And I thought we were talking about bridges.

  12. People have been trying for 30+ yrs to get a rapid transit system in the Puget Sound region, but no one ever wanted to pay for it. At least we have the start of one now. I went to San Fransico last fall cause there were cheap flights into Oakland. We took Bart into town and used public transit all weekend and had a great time, no need for a car. By the way, if you are ever in San Fransico, and you like ciopino you have to go to the Tadich Grill, best I've ever had.
    Bert and Kent Lufkin like this.
  13. We're past bridges, we're on to beam transportation...

    That would be damned handy. You could put on your fishing gear and beam to and from anywhere on the planet you want to fish. That should alleviate some of the over-crowding on rivers.
  14. From " Rivers of Empire"... "Their conformity, their lack of self confidence, and their thirst outweigh any resentment they may feel toward power. The masses will, in gratitude agree to make no trouble, the rewards of acquiescence are so high".

    I'd better go work in my garden, I'm waxing philosophical again.
  15. While rapid transit systems are nice ( lived in WASHDC and used it almost daily), they are exuberantly expensive and world wide they're almost always operate in the red, many substantially.
    ribka likes this.
  16. I'd have a hard time cramming my pontoon boat and all my assorted gear with me when boarding a train. :D

  17. Your right Brookie - It does take two to tango. Unfortunately, nobody wants to step out on the dance floor right now so there's no a lot of tangoing going on. I should prefix this by saying I cant stand either party but here is my observation of the Republicans right now. There is no room for even slightly independent thinkers. If you step out of the party lockstep you will have grover nordquist or the NRA actively campaining against you. Rush Limbaugh and fox news will slam you. They have swung way too far right for me. Bring back the Roosevelt/Goldwater type of Republican party and I would get on board.
    wlai likes this.
  18. You raise an important point Charlie: should we premptively begin replacing infrastructure BEFORE it catastrophically fails, or defer that maintenance until it actually does fail?

    I get that many among us will howl in disagreement about how any such programs will only add to the long-term debt.
    To employ a poor analogy, not spending money to repair or replace bridges or other infrastructure long past the end of its useful life is like saving money by not changing the oil in your car. Sure, every little bit helps balance a teetery household budget, but at what long term cost?

    The way I see it, we were incredibly lucky that no lives were lost in the Skagit bridge collapse. We may not be so lucky next time. How many deaths are an acceptable price to pay for the false savings of deferred maintenance?

    Jim Wallace and Brookie_Hunter like this.
  19. Too true. But there are alternatives.

  20. AH HA! Chris Johnson fishes with garden hackle.


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