Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by golfman65, Dec 27, 2010.
I will try a Snowbee 1D line on my new Burki for a line change and report back.
The MKS was later modeled on this design. REALLY> Where are you getting that info from Salmo? It would seem to me that the MKS was derived from Mike Kinney and Bob Meiser collaborating on a rod design and tweaking it to get it just right. A final design that probably took a couple of years and a few tries to get it just right before the MKS line was offered to the public. And saying that none of the MKSs' are smooth and refined as the Burkies is simply your personal opinion.... which doesnt go far with me.... and in my opinion is just a bunch of smooth and refined BS ..... Kevin
I rarely use a Skagit head. Most of the time Scandinavian head and sometime mid-belly head. Burkie are brilliant when comes to angular change during for example Single Spey. Rods like 8134-4 or 9145-4 are more progressive then 3 pc rods but the blank still flex to the butt section.
This makes sense to me...I can see that and am really interested in trying a compact scandi and a fall fav. on her....I'm also really interested in what a good old delta multi tip would be like?
A 8139-3 Burkheimer was made for the first time in 2002 and MKS was later modeled on this rod; strong tip with solid flex in the butt. The difference is that non of MKS is so smooth and refined like 8139-3 or 7133-3.
Don't agree with that though..mks and burkies are apples and oranges..very different flexs and as said, MKS is Mike Kinney Special and the design is very different...If you feel um next to each other there are some similarities..when you line um up and cast um (with a skagit) those similarities end...
All that said....of all the rods I've cast lately...while two very different rods....this burkie is very interesting....I feel like I'm driving a Ferrari but in a 35 mph zone....
The MKS is like going over a bump on a dirt road four wheeling down to your favorite spot....and your just waiting for that "Wham" when you land...
I'm also really interested in what a good old delta multi tip would be like?
BTW, on Guideline PT or 3D heads in 460+ gr one can cast pretty large fly, if needed, and 3D ( triangle taper) int-S2-S4 drops a fly in a jiffy.
Might Salmo have aquired this top secret info from a left wing liberal blog ?? Or maybe straight from Obama himself:rofl:
1. the 570 is too heavy for the 7134-4 and WILL cause a loss in performance. You cannot pick a line heavier than the rod is supposed to cast and then complain about it's performance!
The rod was designed to cast the 6-7 mid spey perfectly ( and it does) and capable of casting the 7-8 delta it'a also incredible with the compact 480 scandi.
I think our steelhead rivers are the perfect location for a high performance fishing tool, in fact they require it.. Our rivers are NOT 35 mile per hour zones,
if you want more performance out of a fast action rod with a skagit line? slow down just like with a moderate action rod.
I'm just glad we have Kerry, Bob and Gary who make such great rods for us all.
I just got an email from Gary about a 2004 ACR that is built on a Burkie blank. He gave me some sugggestions on what to try, scandi and skagit. I'm excited to start the dialing in process. Other than that, the only help I can offer you, Golfman, is that when you are ready to give it away...I'm ready to give it a home!
2002.....Wow I got my 8139-3 in 2000 after casting a friends the fall of 99, that is one sweet stick with a old xlt 7/8 .....not just for the short stuff:thumb:
Popcorn for sale?
You purchased two of my MKS rods - I think you might have offed the bigger 13'6" think you still have the 13'0" 6/7. I sold the MKS rods as I thought they bombed line but lacked a certain 'feel' in the tip. It's as if they use a heavier tip section than needed for the line rating - thus generating that full-flexing action. I just didn't did the feel of a 6/7 although I could chuck endless amounts of line.
What I decided in the end is that I wanted much more feel from a 6/7. I ended up with a Burk 7134! I love the feel and don't necessarily considered it a 'fast rod'. Fast graphite - sure, but a delicate tip and full flexing. I actually find that I cast it best when I slow way down, left the rod do the work and not overpower the forward stroke.
I found I could really hammer the MKS with no ill-effects. Definitely a nice feature as I occasionally blow up a cast with the 7134. At times I miss the MKS rods for their sheer casting ability but much prefer my current Burk 7134 for overall 'fishability'
Yeah jg...those were I believe the nz. blanks the new ones don't have that tip heavy feel but perform about the same..
I think you may be right, the MKS does seem to forgive your poor casts a bit better..
R.Allen...bud your just flat out wrong!!!! Talk with the guys at burkie..or the shops etc. that fish it...I tend to prefer the lighter heads or at least IMO what are the lighter end of the grain window as I am better at casting from the tip of the rod....The 570 came highly recommended and does not disappoint...the time may come when I prefer the 540 on there..but it was a noticeable improvement with the 570....Normally when I hear someone say they like a heavier head on a rod that I feel is way too heavy...I believe it's bacause they are crappy casters and are using that heavy weight to compensate..the downside is you loose distance but for them they aren't going to reach that distance anyway...
I would say i'm at the 120' cast range now and with warmer weather, and a mono running line could go another 10-15' if I can find the correct stop point...
Rob, I would like to know what set up you have on yours though? Do you own and fish a 7134-4 or are you just blowing smoke? If you do and are using the 540 I would like to know your set up..
All that said...I am really starting to like this rod...I have a couple tackle issues to deal with that I think will improve it even more...but it seems If I keep my top hand tucked tight and smooth the bottom hand more...the thing scoots...I was even single speying the 570 with type 3 tip and 2" fly out 15+ strips with tight loops...that's about all I got as the guides were freezing up again and I didn't need to throw it any further...
I've been running the .038 rio running line on the this and my other rods recently. I've used mono for what seems forever.....I wanted to throttle back on seeing how far I can cast everything and get back to fishing it...I am going to try the .030 rio though tomorrow as IMHO the major effect on the tightness of my loops seems to be trying to drag that thick of a running line off a slow current river...When it warms up I will try some varivas on there..could be scary
Salmo...the 7/8 delta huh?....I think I have a few guidelines both dry and ddc sitting around here so I'll check that out and see If I can come up something, chopped or not, in that range....interesting..that could be an ultimate summer run set up...
All I can say right now is....The wow factor is there...the frustration is knowing that it can do so much more....but then having to stop and think....Fuck, I've got twenty strips out...big loops in each finger and I'm complaining???
I agree with you there. 20 strips? I wouldn't be complaining! I just enjoy the ease of fishing a two hander with much less than that.
uuuummmmmm Golfman........Rob Allen works for Kerry so might have a little bit of insight into the rods!!! :rofl:
Unless I'm mistaken, I believe Rob is, or at least was, one of the guys at burkie...
I own the 7134 and the 12'6" 7/8 MKS. They are my winter skagit rods. I've also spent some time casting the 13' and 13'6" 7/8 MKS.
As far as ease of casting goes, I find my MKS makes a good Skagity auto-caster at around 680-700 total(belly + tip) grains. I get decent feedback from the rod on Edgit-style (continuous motion) doubles, yet with it's strong tip, I can still do singles without feeling like I'm abusing the rod. I find I able to load the rod from the butt section using the lower hand pretty consistently, and tend to think in terms of it's low flex being fairly accessible. I find the low flex in my Burkie to be less accessible, but a bit more capable. A 540 + 12' of t-14 (~710 grains) is about where I begin to get a skagity, auto-caster feel out of the rod. Much below 680 total grains and I find myself wanting to unload the rod into the d-loop and reload on the forward stroke. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a different feel, and I sometimes start wishing for even less grains, so I could quit trying to maximally pre-load the rod before the forward stroke, and show the rod's tip the respect it deserves.
I like the MKS on high-banks and with large flies. The strong tip gets it done when obstructions force you to work off of lower-energy d-loops, and it doesn't flinch when it breaks a leech out of the water. My go-to Sauk rod.
I like the Burkie on the Skagit for it's increased range, but it challenges me a bit. Keeping a load on the rod, and loading the rod from the butt first using opposition between hands is a little trickier, because she wants to recover faster. I tend to use <4" flies and a sportier stroke on the burkie.
They are both fantastic rods. I'm a long ways from uncovering their potential.
You were casting it like this guy...
Rob is probably the most knowledgeable associate in Kerry's staff. I believe he tents to steer toward a lower/mid range of grain window of any of Burkheimer rods.
Any rod should be judge not only based on how it cast Skagit set-up, but also how it cast and feels with a different lines and fly size ( Scandi, short-mid belly) at short or long distance, how it mends and fish.
For short/mid range, when fishing with limited backcast, it is noting wrong to overload rod a bit to facilitate a cast and let rod do more work for an angler.
hmm wonder if he's the one I talked to and was no help? funny as I had to call the shop I got the rod from and ask them again about their recommendations... Again, tried both, had another guy try both...like the 570 quite a bit more...
guess no burkie swag will be coming my way anytime soon huh?