Burnt out on the Green.

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by gbhstrat, Jan 1, 2002.

  1. gbhstrat

    gbhstrat New Member

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    I am just venting a little. Because I live close to the Green I have been fishing it as a place to go when I just want to fish in the morning. Last week I went out on a nice clear morning at the hole on river bend out by the land slide area below Flaming Geyser. You have to walk about a ¼ mile to get there. I have been exploring the Green for many years and I know almost every hole between Hwy 18 and Tacoma head works. When I got there I was all by myself. Buy 9:00 there were six people fishing the same stretch as me. After a couple of hours with not even a sighting of a fish, I packed up and went to look at some other holes. Up and down the river there were people fishing everywhere. There were the typical 2 or 3 fly fisherman at the RC Airplane parking lot and everywhere else there were bait guys. I guess I am getting burnt out attempting to fish a river that has so much fishing pressure. I realized that the time I spent looking for an open spot I could have drove someplace else. Heck, fly fishing for local trout beats fighting the crowds for a steelhead. As I explored the river I really got depressed, every hole I know about had several people. I know it seems selfish but I would like to see the river closed to all bait above Flaming Geyser. I love fly fishing and I don’t mind sharing any hole with fly fisherman (especially when they share flys that are working), I am just tired of so many people on the green. The Beer cans and all. I guess I will be driving North or West my next time out. Even the Yakama in the snow sounds good to me right now.
     
  2. Steelie L

    Steelie L Member

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    Wait a sec. You don't mind sharing the hole with fly fisherman -- especially when they share flies that are working (how nice for you!) -- but you want to ban those darn bait fishers? Why?

    Sorry, friend, but gear fishers aren't the only ones who crowd holes and litter the rivers with "beer cans and all."

    I fly fish AND gear fish, and neither method makes me any more rude or predisposed to littering.

    I understand your frustration with crowds, but you're placing blame in the wrong places. Steelhead are wonderful fish. The world is a crowded place that gets more crowded by the day. Good steelhead rivers are going to be crowded. That's just the way it is. Adopting an elitist attitude and saying, "Only people like me should be able to fish above Flaming Geyser," will get you nowhere. Go out and find a new hole. The Green has a lot of hard-to-reach holes that are rarely fished.

    Good luck.
     
  3. steve

    steve New Member

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    Have you ever tried the White river in Auburn? There are not as many steelhead, but also alot less people. I've had some luck there. It's not as brushy as the Green, so there is alot of room for your back cast. You might try Roegner Park on the south end of Auburn. Good luck.
    -Steve
     
  4. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    Despite frequently feeling the same frustration as expressed in the original post, for the most part I don't disagree with you Steelie L. But the simple fact remains that there seems to be a lot more gear guys than fly guys and when rivers are crowded it can be extremely difficult for fly guys to fish given that fly fishing for steelhead involves covering a lot of water and the gear guys just don't seem to move much (nor do they need as much space to fish). I know this wouldn't be a popular notion with gear guys, but it would be nice if there were a handful of fly only waters (like the N. Fork Stilly from June 1 to Nov. 30) so that fly guys had a better shot at finding some elbow room. I live in Seattle and am usually pressed for time to fish, so it's hard for me to find the time to make it to the N. Fork Stilly and get much time on the water. Inevitably I end up on places like the Sky or Snoqualmie where gear guys are just all over the place, making it difficult to find places to fish. Does anyone know of other fly only areas on Puget Sound rivers? I haven't pored over the regs to see if there are.
     
  5. gbhstrat

    gbhstrat New Member

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    That is one of the reasons I made the original post. Fishing the Stilly a few times in the past did make me feel like there should be more fly only water. The problem is the N fork of the Stilly is a 80 miles from my house. When I was at the Stilly this year, I talked to a Game Warden who came by checking up on us, they keep it fly fishing only to keep the summer run and early Salmon run fishing pressure down by making it fly only. They even evoked a no lead rule to keep the fly guys from getting down to the fish when the kings are spawning and held up in the deep holes. Don't get me wrong, as far as being "an elitist" I have gear and when I get invited to fish with some of my gear friends, I do exactly that. I took up fly fishing only because I enjoy it more once. I like the feeling of the fish hitting my line when I am holding the line, it is so direct to the fisherman. With gear I feel a little more removed from the fish. I also like tying my own flys. When I am fly fishing a hole with other fly fisherman, we are all drifting the same stretch of water and there is respect for where the line is. I know the perception of exclusion will be always their when statements such as mine are made. I just wish there was more space for the fly guys. As far as the beer goes, my experience has been that the fly guys probable drink as much beer off river as anyone else, but it's wading the river when fly fishing that keeps the fly guys honest. It's hard enough keeping your footing sober so we have to wait until after we are done fishing to enjoy the Beer (a little humor).
     
  6. Steelie L

    Steelie L Member

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    o mykiss & gbhstrat:

    Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I appreciate where you're coming from and understand the desire for more space on our rivers. I think it'd be great if one of our local Puget Sound steelhead rivers had some fly-only water. That said -- and this is why I piped in initially -- I also think it's important to minimize in-fighting within the sportfishing community. There are big issues at stake these days regarding our fisheries -- habitat destruction & protection, commercial netting, wild steelhead release, etc. -- and the more divisive we are, the less effective our collective voice. No doubt, it's a tough line to walk, especially when there ARE anglers who treat our riverbanks like city dumps and insist on bonking native fish.

    Tight lines.
     
  7. ray helaers

    ray helaers New Member

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    You know, I have to say that maybe I'm just unlucky, but almost all the experiences I've had with other anglers being rude, or unpleasant, or less than accomaditing in a sporting sense, have been with other flyfishers, rather than "gear" anglers. Now of course I tend to fish the fly water, so come in contact with more fly folks, so maybe it's just the law of averages.

    But often when I walk into a pool occupied by another fly angler and approach him to ask if he would prefer I fish behind him, or move all the way down to the tailout, I'm more likely to get a big shot of attitude than a civil answer, and on more than one occasion I've had guys actually say something like "I got here first; I'd prefer you didn't fish at all." (Unfortunatley for them, I happen to have a forum for trying to make them look like a jackass in print, complete with poetic license, an advantage I have not been above exploiting.)Gear guys usually seem pleasantly surprised that I would even ask. They usually thank me, and sometimes say something like "Oh gee, I kind of plant myself; go ahead and fish in front of me. Please don't hook me with that thing though."

    Let me also say that I try very hard to develop good karma in this regard. First of all, I'm not a very big guy. I always ask politely. Second of all, ask me sometime where I want you to fish and If I've just started a run, I'm likely to invite you to fish the tail out until I work through the head of the riffle. (Unless by some miracle I happen to be the first guy on Buck Island; then you can just wait your turn, Jack!)

    Of course, lot's of flyfishers are perfectly pleasant chaps, and I've had gear guys cut me off, but it happens just as often with other fly anglers (again, that's who I'm most often fishing around; I ususally don't do a lot of steelheading until March and April, when a lot of gear guys seem to be off the water). I'm afraid that it seems like because fly anglers do take up so mch more room, some of them may develop an inflated sense of entitlement.

    That's steelheading; don't even get me started how some guys can behave on the Yakima, Rocky Ford, or Dry Falls.

    Whatever. I can take my lumps with everybody else. I'm just saying that if it's boorish louts you're worried about, you maybe shouldn't imagine that getting some fly-only water is going to turn everything into collegial bon homie.

    I grew up in San Diego(that's right, the C word), right across the street from the beach, and surfed all through my adolescence. Overcrowding was a big problem at all the best spots. While they were a drag, we considered it bad form to complain out loud about the crowds. Here's why: if you thought the crowding was so bad, there was only one very concrete and immediate thing you could do about it; get out of the water! I don't mean that as an admonition, but offer it only as food for thought.
     
  8. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    Ray, I guess we've all had different experiences with fly and gear anglers. Although I've been flyfishing a lot fewer years than you, I guess I count myself fortunate not to have had the kinds of experiences with fly anglers that you apparently have. I will say, though, that it's beyond me why any steelhead fly angler would have the temerity to tell another steelhead angler not to fish behind them -- why would anyone think they have the right to do that? I've never heard any interpretation of "proper etiquette" to include some rule that if you're first to a run, the whole thing is yours until you quit. Anyway, if you ever run into me on Buck Island, you are more than welcome to step in below me (as long as it's a reasonable distance below -- wouldn't want to snag you with an errant cast). I catch so few fish, I'd be kidding myself if I thought your working a run below me would substantially diminish my chances of catching a fish. :)
     
  9. ray helaers

    ray helaers New Member

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    Yeah, it's a funny thing isn't it? Why would all sorts of people think they have the right to do a lot of the inconsiderate things they do? I'm not trying to harsh on flyfishers; it's just been my experience that we seem to have our share of jerks just like everybody else (now REALLY don't get me started on surfers!).

    Maybe one day we will run into each other on Buck, and I'll be happy to take you up on your kind offer. Your "lot fewer years" of experience notwithstanding (that wasn't some kind of crack about my age, was it?), believe me, I'm not very likely to diminish anyone's chances of hooking a fish. I seem to have a pretty good knack for watching guys hook steelhead behind me. :AA
     
  10. gbhstrat

    gbhstrat New Member

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    I guess I started an interesting topic to talk about because it gets into the fishing mindset a little. I grew up a surfer in Santa Cruz in the late 60's-70's and I know exactly what overcrowding is like. I even saw fights on the water. With San Jose and San Francisco so close, the locals got real uptight when anyone new showed up. It is like that spot is "owned" by who ever surfs there the most. I was lucky in that as a younger kid, nobody every bothered me because they new I was local. It's a good thing fishing is not that way. I also caught my first Steelhead in Santa Cruz in a river that is now a bunch of slow moving sludge. It use to be an overcrowded fishing river like the green and now it is nothing. Getting back to the subject, I think everyone has pointed out something good. Being a Fly Fisherman does not change buttheads into somebody different. Our rivers have too many fishermen competing for the prime water and there are not enough fish. I guess fishing is just like surfing, snow skiing, duck hunting and many other sports I have done. Weekdays are better then weekends, driving to more remote locations is usually worth the effort spent, being considerate of others is the rule even if it does not always work, the karma rule is always in place (fur-sure dude - some Santa Cruz coming back in me =:) Surfs Up! :COOK
     
  11. ray helaers

    ray helaers New Member

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    My very good freind lives in Santa Cruz now, too old to surf anymore, but a fine flyfisher. Is the river you refer to the San Lorenzo, or Scott Creek? If so, you might be interested and heartened to know that they're having a banner run this year. Guys are catching wild steelhead in both streams right now! If it can happen in California, there's always hope.

    Maybe we can start a "flyfishers who are too old to surf anymore" forum. Did you know there are world-class left points out on the Strait of Juan de Fuca?
     
  12. gbhstrat

    gbhstrat New Member

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    It was the San Lorenzo river up in the gorge. That is good to hear abut the river now, the last time I saw it I would never believe a fish could live in it. When I visit my Dad in Santa Cruz all I ever get to see is where the water is really low and it always look really bad. It’s good to hear that the river is producing fish. Maybe I should go down there for a week. I would probably never complain about a Washington river ever again. When I went looking for a local fly shop I could not find a good well stocked shop like we have here in almost every city. When I searched the web I see that Big Sur is now a local trout hot spot, It use to be only noted for growing great pot! California really is changing! Wooo dude-trippey fish man, wad’ga catch em on?….. A Zig Zag dubbing nymph dipped in bong water dude! Works good!
     
  13. bobkt76

    bobkt76 New Member

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    i fish metsler park alot and i agee that the gear chucker are thick right now but i have a good q do u fish the horsshew and if u do is ther a easeyer way in than than the long walk in by that hachery i know there is a road u end up on in the end of the trail but is it a longer walk in i got in a car wreck and am not able to walk far the hike into metzler is about all my back can handle i hit the rc hole at flaming and it just gets to much preshere from all the 10 min a hole fisheres i did hit a spunky chum on sunday there keep the sunny side up and the krusty side down keeep on trucking
     
  14. gbhstrat

    gbhstrat New Member

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    If you are talking about the horseshoe hole at Kanaskat-Palmer State Park then the easiest way in is from the state park once the gates open at 8:00. It's a short walk down the trail to the hole. The problem with the state park side is the hole may be harder to access once you are in the water. I have been pretty far in that water and almost lost it several times the lat time I fished there. I was just above the big drop off. That's that last place you want to get swept down the river. I know of some fishing guys who rafted between Kanaskat-Palmer and Flaming Geyser last week. They spent most of their time fighting to sty alive and not fishing. That stretch of river have some class 5 water in it.
     
  15. guest

    guest Guest

    After reading all these posts about the areas being crowded, I know now why I only fish durning the week or on week days only. Being retired lets me have most of the good spots durning the week. Heck I live close to the Stilly and I don't even go there. I just don't like crowds. Bait chucker's don't have no respect for any one. Thats why they stand shoulder to shoulder. Jim S.
     

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