Call of the wild

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Alex MacDonald, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 924
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +610 / 0
    The wolves are an economic threat to cattleman, just as maintaining adequate river flows and water quality for anadromous fish are an economic threat to barge traffic, agricultural irrigation, municipal/industrial wastewater dischargers, and timber harvest practices. It's all economics, and quite relative. Conflict is an intrinsic part of life, and perspective depends upon whose ox is getting gored.

    Concerns about dangers to humans due to wolf reintroductions are just plain unfounded and silly.

    While I'm quite willing to pay taxes to see the anadromous fisheries survive despite never fishing for them, as well as repayment for livestock losses due to wolf predation, not everyone feels the same way.

    In fact, the further one travels inland, the fewer people you'll find that care about anadromous fish at all...they figure that what little they eat can easily be acquired from some market, somewhere (of course, in aggregate, that's short-sighted...but as a species we're quite short-sighted...it's a human characteristic). Within a generation or so, nobody will care about steelhead or salmon, once they're long gone.
  2. GAT Active Member

    Posts: 4,169
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Ratings: +2,686 / 0
    Of that, I have no doubt.

    I guess it comes down to money versus the planet... as usual. You're right, when timber companies were wiping out salmon and steelhead habitat, it was all for the bucks with no regard for the fish. The same holds true for the wolf. As you noted, the big money of the livestock biz will maintain the war against the wolves.

    However, we were able to stop lumber companies from destroying fish habitat, so perhaps requiring ranchers to build fencing to contain their cattle is also possible. If we can stop open range operations, then I guess I'd have no problem with the reintroduction of wolves.

    As far as the elk hunters are concerned, well, I kind'a see them the same as those who want to harvest steelhead no matter what and consider the wild steelhead as competition to their goals.

    No offense intended toward elk hunters but I honestly don't see wolves wiping out all the elk... no more than they did before the whiteman showed up.

    You can't have it both ways, Krusty. You tell me that there is no way open range grazing will be eliminated yet you are pro-wolf. IF we can remove the livestock concerns, then I see hope for the wolves.

    The elk hunters my kill wolves they see while hunting but not nearly as many as will cattle ranchers who may carry a riffle at all times.

    Considering we did force change in logging practices, perhaps it is possible to change open range practices. At one time, folks said there was no way we could stop the destruction of fisheries by timber companies. Yet it happened.
  3. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 924
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +610 / 0
  4. GAT Active Member

    Posts: 4,169
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Ratings: +2,686 / 0
    I know, it will be a continual fight. Money will always be at odds with the environment. I won't give up the fight and neither will they. It will be a constant battle and never over, you're certainly right about that.

    How I ended up just the opposite of the general attitude of where I was raised is amazing. However, there is some redneck still in me. Evidently I'm a mix of redneck and treehugger. :)
    Krusty likes this.
  5. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 924
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +610 / 0
    It gave you the advantage of not vilifying rednecks or treehuggers....which is, sadly, a trait in short supply on both sides.

    As country-folk would say, 'you didn't forget your raising'.
  6. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,927
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +668 / 0
    The solution is quite simple.
    We need hatchery wolves.
    dfl, Ed Call, Porter and 1 other person like this.
  7. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 924
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +610 / 0
    They're called 'dogs'....
    dfl, GAT and Porter like this.
  8. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,468
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +525 / 0
    Which leads to hatchery mutants like ' poodles '
  9. Mingo the Menehune stole my beer

    Posts: 2,629
    Happy Hour, WA
    Ratings: +377 / 1
    Poodles and all other yappers have just one purpose. That purpose is defined in three words. Punt, pass and kick.
    Ron McNeal, dfl and Porter like this.
  10. wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

    Posts: 2,038
    Wallingford, WA
    Ratings: +1,608 / 0
  11. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,755
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,778 / 0
    Those things are called Kuma snacks around our house.
    dfl and Ed Call like this.
  12. GAT Active Member

    Posts: 4,169
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Ratings: +2,686 / 0
    In defense of Poodles, the full size non-shrunk dogs are very intelligent and were bred for hunting. They can be mean suckers as I learned from one on my newspaper route when I was a kid.

    ... how they ended up shrinking a hunting dog into a yapper is beyond me.
    Porter likes this.
  13. Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

    Posts: 734
    Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +239 / 0
    Here's my wife's hunting dog.

    [IMG]
    Brian Miller, The Duke, GAT and 3 others like this.
  14. Alosa Active Member

    Posts: 352
    Seattle
    Ratings: +142 / 1
    Dude...are you wearing Uggs??
  15. Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

    Posts: 734
    Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +239 / 0
    Absolutely. What do you wear in a cold weather hunting camp??

    I also wear gaiters while bird hunting. One time when I was running late on completing a timber sale and a monsoon hit I ended marking trees in my Red Ball Fly Weight waders.

    You do whatever you need to do to get the job done.

    I wear dress wool pants in the woods: http://usbackroads.blogspot.com/2010/08/over-garments.html

    Today's outdoor clothes are made for tourists or blue-collar outdoor jobs. There are really very few clothes designed for people working in the woods.
    GAT and Krusty like this.
  16. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 924
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +610 / 0
    Best pair of hunting pants I ever owned were the green wool trousers from my Marine Corps days....but, as a civilian....I outgrew them long before I could wear them out.

    You're right, the tourist outdoor wear is great in terms of warmth with no tendency to soak up heat-robbing moisture, but it's not durable enough for daily outdoors work....and the durable stuff like Carhartts tends to use cotton canvas that holds water like a sponge...alright for a lot of construction work, but horrible out in the dripping wet woods or snow.
    Porter likes this.
  17. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,468
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +525 / 0
    I'll second your carharts comment! dead on.
  18. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,769
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,713 / 0
    Wolves will only attack you is you are messing with their young or you are in the way of what they are eating, or the big one. They are rabid.

    But to pull down a child to eat. They would never do that with all the other wild animals out there. They really don't like to be around MAN.

    How come nobody put out any popcorn with this subject.
  19. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 924
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +610 / 0
    We were waiting for you to bring the popcorn, Old Man. We hear there's no popcorn tax in Montana.
  20. zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Posts: 3,239
    Moses Lake, WA
    Ratings: +1,030 / 1
    One thing I'd like to know from the wolf experts or should I say "opinion holders" is how many wolves have you seen in the wild? The Discovery channel, zoos, petting or otherwise, and Yellowstone Park do not count. I've seen 5 and one had a rifle pointed at it. My intention was turning it into a rug.

    My guess is a lot of the "opinion holders" have never seen a live wolf.