Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Alex MacDonald, Apr 17, 2013.
I would more worry about a Coyote than a Wolf. Them little shits are sneaky.
Oh-oh, I'm thinking somebody has been watching "The Grey" one too many times (once is one too many times)!
I've seen five, all in Alaska. Four together that trotted within 10 feet of me while I sat in the brush, and one at a distance of about 75 yards. Magnificent animals.
I found that encountering cow moose with their young a whole lot more worrisome than wolves....I think most natives would say the same. Nobody I met in my travels in Alaska, the Yukon Territory, orr northern BC worried about wolves at all...though they do pay attention to bears and moose.
Nah... they're harmless little dudes. A few years ago, Virginia and I were hunting morels in NE Oregon. A coyote came wandering buy, looked at us like he was saying "howdy" then went on his way as if we were no big deal.
Hell, I'm more worried about raccoons than wolves...I've seen some very aggressive racoons. Of course, no wild animal is as scary as some dirtbag's mistreated pitbull.
One thing about wolves...once they move into a territory, that's the end of the coyotes.
To add a little Canadian perspective to this.......we don't carry guns here, unless you are a hunter with permit/license etc. We have lots of wolves, its really nice to go to sleep and hear wolves howling, they also happen to be beautiful, intelligent animals. I see them sometimes (I've seen maybe 20 in total), and relish it every time. I still often sleep outside when camping by a lake in the bush. Wolves don't hurt people, that thought/statement is slightly embarrassing. How many people have been hurt by wolves in the last 10yrs? now compare that to dogs in town.....see? slightly embarrassing.
Many of our ecosystems that still sustain wolves are almost identical to those in Washington, if ours can sustain wolves happily then yours can too...without throwing it all out of whack when they are introduced. Of course there will be a settling in period, all the ungulates will be on edge, and there will be less of them.
Also the thought of needing to carry guns in the bush is slightly silly as well, aside from the odd grizzly/black bear attack, our animals are pretty mellow, don't hit their babies and everything is normally fine. Call me weird but the fact that we have real animals that might hurt you is what makes our bush so much more appealing, a gun 'just for protection' just seems like it takes the 'interesting' out of the bush.
Anyways, we have wolves, and its great, I for one am pretty happy that washington also has wolves.
Jonnytutu, exactly the sentiments I heard everywhere up there....and if it's one thing that pisses Canadians off is when American tourists get sloppy with campfood storage (or even worse, feeds bears from a vehicle) and it ends in the needless death of one of your animals.
By far and away, the worst thing I experienced were your mosquitos!
Make a spray mixed of water and honey and tell everyone that will keep the mosquitos away....works for me ...while everyone around me takes the hits!
Considering the diseases carried by ticks... you most likely have more to fear from a tick than a wolf.
Spent 6.5 hours yesterday clearing junk growth from some really steep grasslands that the deciduous were starting to overcome.Mule deer and Elk winter range. Finished and everyone had a tick picking party, sort of look like those pictures of Gorillas grooming each other. Only thing in the world that I hate is ticks, cannot think of any reason for their existence.
The only thing I fear is A redheaded woman & the seattle police department, both are unpredicable & dangerous
LOL. The new age american male. Tough as nails.... fingernails that is.
Dude , can you hook me up with whatever you are smokin
Clearly you miss the point of the analogy. no matter what you think, wolves were NOT part of the ecosystem for over a century. Any attempt to "reintroduce" them constitutes an introduction of a (now) invasive species. And in the jungle, a little kitten can rip the living shit out of you.
I DO have experience with wolves, having encountered them more than once both in the lower 48 and elsewhere. Singularly, they aren't much of an issue, but pack them up, get them hungry, and they're bad news with a decent ability to solve problems and cooperate. They also can mate with Eastern Coyotes, producing a hybrid. These hybrids were implicated in the attack and killing of a young Canadian singer two years ago in Ontario. They've also attacked and killed people in Alaska.
Alex, I don't think anyone who studies the problem of invasive species would accept your definition. Local extirpation is not the same as extinction. A relatively few generations does not provide time for the ecosystem to evolve sufficiently for the returning species to have the same relative role as an introduced alien species might. Reintroduction is an ecological management tool used for many species in many habitats and doesn't even approach the definition of 'invasion.'
As an aside, your estimation in an earlier post of 1-year generation times for wolves is a significant underestimation; age to potential first reproduction (ca. 2 years in female wolves) doesn't equal generation time. That is a calculation that entails age of parents, clutch size, etc., and pack animals like wolves, where dominant individuals produce most of the offspring for many years, means that wolves probably have effective generation times of 4-5 years or more. Similarly, for animals like elk, which exhibit dominant male mating with harems of cows, the generation time is probably somewhere in the vicinity of 5 years +/- (cows can't calf before age 2 and bulls rarely achieve dominance until age 3-4 years and may maintain that dominance for 5-8 years). So, the time in generations, since wolves were extirpated in most of the western US, is probably no more than ca. 20 wolf or elk generations. Not enough to register any evolutionarily significant change. That's why elk behavior has reverted so quickly to be like what it was before wolves were extirpated.
The benefit to the rest of the ecosystem's health, everything from vegetation recovery, stream ecology, and increasing populations of raptors, of the return of a keystone species, in this case, the wolf, is a tremendous boon to western ecosystems (GAT, if you're reading, this is probably the best answer to your question of the benefit resulting from the return of wolves).
Well, that's a good thing. I am tired of feeding expensive cats to coyotes around here. We have started picking up "lost/found" cats since they are much cheaper.
If wolves wipe out coyotes, what's the deal on dogs??
Hey, those mule hunting clothes look good. Those bibs in particular.
I live immediately adjacent to Riverside State Park...there's a six foot fence in my back yard, and I see coyotes most every night...in a stare-down with my two cattle dogs. There's a lightpost down the street that always has lost pet signs on it. Outside cats don't last long....I've found cat haunches and collars out there.
Looks like wolves in small numbers may have been here all along. Additionally, wolves have not been introduced into WA state. They have been migrating here of their own volition, suggesting that the habitat is naturally supportive. Read on to learn of the numerous (i.e. both of them) wolf-caused human fatalities in the last 60 years.
" Wolves were once common throughout most of Washington, but declined rapidly from being aggressively killed during the expansion of ranching and farming between 1850 and 1900. Wolves were eliminated as a breeding species from the state by the 1930s, although infrequent reports of animals continued in the following decades, suggesting that small numbers of individuals continued to disperse into Washington from neighboring states and British Columbia."
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In 1975, a successful wolf hunt was organized after a rancher near Mansfield, WA (Jameson & Grimes Lake area) lost some cattle. The 110 lb wolf was found and shot and it stirred up a shit storm. Two guys stood trial for transporting and dumping the carcass in BC.