Call of the wild

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Alex MacDonald, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,403
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,359 / 9
    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, this has really taken some twists and turns.
    How do you bend the spoon? Simple, there is no spoon.
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  2. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,716
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,760 / 0
    Alright, who woke up the moderator?
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  3. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,906
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +648 / 0
    Whoa....

    [IMG]
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  4. Trapper Badovinac Author, Writer, Photographer

    Posts: 448
    Helena, Montana
    Ratings: +594 / 0
    Wow!

    I hesitate to jump into the fray, but there's some pertinent data absent.

    Canis lupis is a species. There are dozens of sub-species (including dingos and domestic dogs) and there is considerable variances between them. So, just saying "wolf" is like saying "cuttthroat". I don't know which sub-species originally inhabited Washington, but the original one in YNP was classified as C. l. irremotus. But, biological taxonomy isn't stagnant and wolf taxonomy changed several times in the last 100 years. Thus the question and debate among biologists was heated regarding this issue. Many biologists thought the original wolf in YNP was much smaller than C. l. irremotus, more like C. l. nubilus, which is ~30% smaller and exhibiting different behaviors. So, when C. l. occidentalis was taken from western Alberta, biologists were not in agreement with that choice. Some saw it as a re-introcution and others saw it as an introduction since the original sub-species was extinct.


    For various reasons many people fear wolves and bears. Wolves are carnivores, bears are omnivores. Wolves actively hunt live animals, bears mostly are content to eat what other critters have killed. The exception for bears here in Montana is the elk calving season when grizzly bears actively move into calving areas and kill and eat the calf elk. Mountain lions also.

    Neither wolves nor bears put humans at the top of their kill list.

    The great difference between wolves and bears is that we humans, during the introduction/reinroduction process, have borderline habituated the wolf. Biologists crawl into dens to examine pups, leave their scent, and don't injure the pups. Others give the wolves great drugs, collar them, and handle them without injury. Some wolves are not going to associate humans with danger because humans have not presented them with a danger.

    There in lies the real problem.

    Last fall I was in a wilderness area and as I was falling asleep I heard the wolves howling. I have to say it's pretty cool, but it's mixed with the memories of twice being flanked by wolves while riding my horse and the result was being thrown and having a concussion. I could write a lot more about this, but just one thing is noteworthy -- the horses I've been around are not nearly as nervous around bears, but it gets really Western when they even smell wolf scat. I've faced down both grizzlies and black bears while on horseback with no problem. Wolves make horses crazy.

    I predict the first human killed in the Rockies or Pacific Northwest since the mid 1990s introduction/reintroduction, will not be recorded as a wolf-caused human death. It will be reported as a riding accident. The real cause of death will be man's constant interference, and resultant quasi-habituation of the wolf.

    It's time to let all States manage the wolf. Take off the collars, stop looking at the wolf as some sort of Deity, and manage it like any other wild animal.

    Trapper
  5. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,321
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +886 / 0
    Maybe better you don't use "text-talk". Makes you come off a little less than you probably are. I don't think anyone here fears wildlife, and am not sure where that came from unless it's from city-dwellers. There was an article in one of the San Francisco papers several decades ago in which children from Oakland believed chocolate milk came from chocolate cows, but that's Oakland, the city that brought us Ebonics. I do like the "truck hunters" reference though, having encountered them on occasion. They're fun to watch. As far as the forest being a dangerous place though, I wonder if you recall a guy named Timothy Treadwell?
  6. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,321
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +886 / 0
    Amen, brother! I managed to bail 6 years ago and highly recommend it! I'll bow to your expertise on this. Thanks for letting us know your background.

    Vladimir hits the nail on the head when he writes about science not having any impact regarding wildlife management decisions; way too much hand-wringing an way too little thinking going on.
  7. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,035
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +737 / 1
    The livestock farmer
  8. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,321
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
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    Probably the badger. There was a series of fantasy books: Wheel of Time, where one of the pubs was named "Easing the Badger"... I can't for the life of me shake the feeling there's something definitely obscene in the name of the pub:D
  9. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,035
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +737 / 1
    Bingo. Just goes go show that while you can be on the wrong side of a few issues we discuss, we do agree on a few topics ;)
  10. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 909
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +601 / 0
    Treadwell was an idiot who got himself killed pushing the envelop of human/bear interaction. He enjoyed his notoriety, and paid the price, by playing Russian roulette with a derringer.

    Spending time in wolf country is not analogous to setting up camp in the middle of a communal grizz feeding zone.

    There are all sorts of ways to get yourself killed in town, and in the woods, if you don't recognize the dangers....but they don't have to totally color our enjoyment of either environment.
  11. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 909
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +601 / 0
    'Cougar' is a euphemism for an older sexually predatory woman?

    Well, I'm not skeered....I'm so old they'd be easy to avoid; they just can't move that fast with their walkers and busted hips.
  12. sopflyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 739
    Where the fish are located
    Ratings: +448 / 0
    Was treadwell the guy who got eaten by his friends the bears whom he communed with? If so then i say natural selection got it right, what a f.... Idiot. Gee, you mean the bears might hurt me if i camp up their ass for three seasons? This is a case of a self proclaimed expert doing something extremely stupid. Its as dangerous as you make it.
  13. Mingo the Menehune stole my beer

    Posts: 2,629
    Happy Hour, WA
    Ratings: +374 / 1
    Every hippie thinks bears are cute, until one bitch-slaps the hippie's melon clean off his shoulders into a blackberry bush.
  14. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,321
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
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    He's da man! His father always said he wouldn't amount to shit: dad was clearly wrong:D
  15. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,321
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
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    There was an episode of "Bones" that had a murder taking place on a cougar cruise. They ain't that old!!
  16. sopflyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 739
    Where the fish are located
    Ratings: +448 / 0
    Alex i would eat treadwell on pure principal. You would eat him. The guys a tool. I guess it is dangerous for morons. Natural selection got it right.
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  17. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 909
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +601 / 0
    Well, if they ain't 'that old' then it means they're younger than me and, hence, hot babes. Krusty don't wanna be fending off some cougar Golden Girls. I like 'em with a full set of natural teef.
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  18. GAT Active Member

    Posts: 4,028
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Ratings: +2,602 / 0
    Mrs Robinson was the original cougar... I have to admit, I've never been chased by a cougar of any species. ...
  19. sopflyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 739
    Where the fish are located
    Ratings: +448 / 0
    Well guys after treadwell was brought up, watching beastmaster and never cry wolf last night and my new found obsession with incense I've decided to head out to the cascades and join the teanaway pack. I am sure my canine friends will see me as an equal and give me the acceptance and love my parents and friends could not. I now only need to find a woman gullible enough to go with me.
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  20. Krusty Active Member

    Posts: 909
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +601 / 0
    Take plenty of pictures, paleeeze!