Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Steve Vaughn, Nov 4, 2010.
You're right Kerry, It may take 5 pages.
According to what source? Can you please show me a valid source of data that concludes that the majority of those who pack are only mediocre with a firearm? Also, can you please post data showing that most people convicted of manslaughter spend their entire lives in prison?
Wow, I'm not sure if I should be ashamed or proud of starting this thread on my 11th post. Either way this newbie has enjoyed the debate. To my mind stilly stalker's suggestion appealed to me the most - who would screw with a guy in a viking helmet? Thanks.
You did well. Nothing wrong with a spirited discussion from time-to-time . . . 'tis another of our rights, to "agree to disgree." To answer your question: Meaner Vikings . . .
One thing I've noticed, is that people in certain career fields are more exposed to the crazy shit that goes on in our society, and are much more likely to own/carry a gun. And I'm not just talking about law enforcement. I've know people who never had much interest in guns, but after being exposed to nuts jobs for awhile, or having a family member enter a career with that exposure, they realize that there are actually people out there worthy of concern.
It's not common, but I know people who have been threatened, assaulted, and in one case had a gun pointed at him, all because they were recognized from work. I'm happy for the people who say they've never seen a need to carry. Some people see reasons every day.
I had a good friend of mine, who is a professional body builder mind you, get attacked outside a club in downtown Seattle by 5 Samoan men. They were just walking and next thing you know these guys were wailing on him. His buddies backed off and told the guys to let them be, they tried to fight back and were no match. They broke 3 ribs, broken nose, blood in the eyes, blood in the brain. Finally his friend told them to get off and when they didn't listen he put one in a guys forehead and one in his heart before he hit the ground. He was cleared of any wrong doing and my friend after a lot of time in a hospital is okay now.
You don't realize some of the crazy people out there. I've been out in the woods, and when your miles from civilization and no cell reception sometimes it comes down to your own two hands and mouth. If those don't work, its either your life or theirs. Its a tough choice that I've been mulling over. Be sure about your abilities, and know how to use a gun.
Thinking that over the winter I may just purchase a .357. Gotta think about it some more. Just wanted to add my $0.02
I own a handgun. I carried it (open) a few times in Montana in grizzly country. That was many years ago and I don't really know if it was smart or not. Probably not. I have heard that unless you get lucky, a 9 mm is most likely just going to piss off a grizzly more than he already is.
I doubt I will ever carry a handgun while fishing again. Could it save my life, sure. Could an asteroid hit my house, yes. I just think the odds of needing it don't justify the hassle.
I would avoid physical confrontation with anyone at almost all cost. I guess I am a wimp. If I was certain they were going to harm me or a family member that would be different. But I always assumed that if I killed a petty thief, I would end up as a roommate with someone in the state pen who in all likelihood would not be my type.
You hear about tweakers breaking into cars and there seems to be a lot of people ready and willing to kill them but I can't recall reading about this happening in the newspaper. Seems like that would be in the paper. Maybe I don't read the newspaper enough. Feel free to tell me I don't get it and we fisherpersons are routinely killing drug driven theives.
I try to picture myself telling my entire family at Christmas dinner how I came across a 23 year old girl who got hooked on meth breaking into my car so I killed her.
I respect people's opinion about carrying. Just not my cup of tea. After reading this annual thread, I am curious - what % of FFs actually carry? As opposed to choose to say they carry in this thread. If I were to guess, I would say 10%. Based on this thread, it is a lot more than that.
I don't need a handgun. I carry Chuck Norris with me. Splits a Grizzly with a karate chop. Just his eyestare kills a tweaker. 9 out of 10 crimes are diverted if you carry your Chuck Norris.
depends on the situation, but I carry my security six whenever possible.
go up to the Forks area, way back in the bush...all alone....you seriously think about wanting to have a sidearm on you. I own a Glock .40 cal but have never taken it fishing.
Par-a- noia strikes deep, into your life it will creep, starts when your always afraid, step outa line, the man comes, and takes you away......
This thread really got me thinking. Just got back from the gun store. Seriously thinking about getting a XDM .40 for those times when I am fishing around other fly fishermen. Which seems to be just about everytime I go fishing.
We still need 3 more pages and someone to represent the duffer to complete this thread.
Like Fitz I've got a disconnect going from this thread.
So many people armed while fishing ready to defend their person and property and so many evil doers roaming the countryside ready to do harm to person and property and so few news stories of the two coming together and only one walking away. Something doesn't add up.
For me I've never had an interest in fishing armed because I have no doubt carrying a gun would change the way I see and address the world around me. Just knowing I had that option at hand in my interaction with my surroundings would influence my interaction in a way I would prefer not to choose.
I'm 51 yrs old and have hunted, hiked, fished and camped my whole life here and abroad and I have never once felt like I needed a gun to address a situation (well except for shooting the critters I was hunting).
Wow, nine fast pages. Well done all. I'm pretty comfortable around guns. My former occupation required a level of familiarity that I got used to. Guys I fish with carry, and I know that and I'm okay with that. I have seen many guys open carry, I'm okay with that. I have seen many guys that conceal carry, and I'm okay with that. Know your tools, know when to use them, when not to use them and be willing to accept the ramifications. So far I've not been around a crowd that has left me that unsettled or unsafe feeling. I hope they think the same of me. Being on the sending or receiving end of such an encounter may well be a one time lesson that does not allow me to recalibrate my current position. I'm okay with my lifestyle and choices, I hope each of you are too.
Aren't tweakers afraid of regular people? Like cockroaches, they scurry out of daylight and sight to more comfortably operate under cover of darkness or when they think no one is watching. Do tweakers have and use firearms against people often? Not that I've read and there are lots of them in areas I've gone. Outside of the real personal safety of yourself or others for which you are looking out for, is any of your shit or a fishing hole worth making that choice to put rounds into a tweaker or other upset angler? Best to all as they make their decision. Whatever it is, be familiar, proficient and of sound thought process. Best.
I agree w/everything you said and feel exactly as you do, Paul... x'cept I'm older than you!
I've spent a lifetime hiking, hunting and fishing (most of it here in WA state) and just don't see the need to "carry" based on my experience.
I assume we don't read about these fatal encounters between fishermen and tweakers because the armed angler subscribes to the SSS policy of shoot, shovel, shut up. Face it, even a tweaker's mother doesn't file a missing person's report; she's so happy just to never hear from him or be painfully bothered by him again.
Tweakers are too stoked up to be afraid or exercise any rational brain function. Theirs is a simple, if painful (to us) existence. Steal stuff, sell it, buy drugs, use drugs, repeat. Clearly, anyone putting that much meth or junk into their body has long since foregone any sense of self preservation. Their brain chemistry is, as they say, all fvked up. So, no, they're not afraid of you catching them, and they generally won't try to harm you, unless you are alone and they are in the company of fellow tweakers. Then you might be in a situation you can't talk yourself out of.
i carry concealed often. twice i saved myself from being robbed, in the last 22 years. simply decided to not shop in bad areas late at night, problem solved. i wont carry my glock fishing, its a pain in the ass, or hip i should say. just one more thing to worry about. besides, i got insurance, and buying new stuff is always fun.
Well, I swore to myself I wasn't gonna do this, but here goes:
I grew up in a rural lifestyle around guns, and learned how to safely handle, use and respect them from an early age.
It's a lot different now. I fear there's more than one fool out there that isn't real familiar with his high-tech semi-auto uber .45, even though he shot 50 rnds through it after he bought it 2 yrs ago.
If you are going to carry a firearm for self-defense, whether in the woods fishing or in the city at work, you have a moral and legal obligation to do it in a safe and responsible manner.
GET TRAINING. If you have never handled a firearm, don't go buy one and try to figure it out in your living room! Most gun shops and firing ranges can get you hooked up with a firearms safety/handling course. Many will allow you to try different pistols to see which one might be the best 'fit' for you. Besides safety/handling, these course should also also cover the legal aspects of gun ownership and carry. Which brings me to:
KNOW THE LAW AND FOLLOW IT. Self-explanatory, I suppose..... Although the population in our penal system is kinda crazy.
I carried a .357 Ruger GP100 (stainless, 4" bbl) for about 14 years while backpacking, tramping around, and fishing in the PNW. I usually carried bear mace, too, especially in NW Montana and Alaska, since capsicum is a wayyy better deterrant than a puny .357. I prefer a revolver over a semi-auto for reliability BTW, but that's just me.
In those 14 years, I only pulled that GP100 once, at a traihead after a guy made his dog go completely aggro on us. I only resorted to it after all other options were exhausted. I asked him to control his dog, and get it off us, but he seemed to actually be enjoying it! It was really surreal and scary. The guy called his dog off only after he saw the .357. I was fully prepared to put that dog down, and I was keeping an eye on sketchy-boy, too, but I'm glad the situation de-escalated.
Now I carry a S&W 329PD .44 mag, mainly 'cuz it's very light. (Not a whole lotta fun to shoot, though. The light weight means it kicks like the proverbial mule.) I use a nylon chest rig for discreet carry under my waders, and a simply rugged sourdough pancake for open carry. (Ron Leahy makes GREAT holsters) Garret hammerhead 310-gr cartidges are awesome for big predator defense/hunting, and made here in WA. CCI shot shells for snakes and survival grouse.
But don't buy a pistol until you know how to render basic first aid, build a shelter, get and make water potable, navigate, and generally survive with the clothes (and tools) on your back. You are far more likely to die for want of shelter and warmth, than want of a firearm to defend yourself. (and yes, B Jofus B, I can produce evidence of that:ray1.
If you carry, do it wisely. Please.