Casting Problems-- Rio Outbound Short Floater

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by LCnSac, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    I have Outbound Shorts in #8 in both floater and 7ips sinker. Using my #8 Orvis Zero Gravity I can cast the sinker with a 2/0 clouser 80ft. with decent accuracy every time. For the life of me I cannot get any distance from the floater. I'm lucky to get 40'. I tried it with the BVK 8 wt. and no real improvement. I can get more distance with a standard WF8F line.

    It's hard to imagine having to over line the rod as the OBS is at least +1. Haven't tried the floater with the closer, mostly with an Airhead which is going to have some wind resistance but not like the deer hair rats we throw on the Delta. It's got to be something I'm doing wrong. Any suggestions?
     
  2. Cold

    Cold Member

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    How are you trying to cast and what does your leader look like? I use the same line on my 7'10" 8wt Redington Predator and it's an absolute cannon of a setup.

    I probably don't have to say this if you're casting the other one with no issues, but get the running line at your feet, grab the line right at the olive-to-white transition, get the head in the air and give it 2 sharp hauls and let it fly.

    Keep your leaders short and stiff...maximum in length and lightness of 6 feet of 2X, but I use about 4-6 feet of the butt of a tapered 2X fluoro salt leader with a perfection loop, and I add maybe 1.5 feet of 2X fluoro tippet just to avoid gnawing away at the leader. It's longer than I suggested to you, but I'm having no issues casting it. If I did, shortening the leader would be my first step.
     
  3. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    Not sure about the floaters. Don't they have a similar configuration as the intermediates; Short head and running line? Perhaps you're trying to cast too much of the running line.
     
  4. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    With that line if you have any running line outside the tip when casting large flies, it will fail. I know there is a sweet spot--I just haven't found it. The sinker was so easy in comparison. Agree with Cold that the problem may be in the leader. I usually use just 5-6 ft. of 15lb. mono but I don't think that's stiff enough for these flies. I'm going to try to build a short tapered leader and see if that does it.
     
  5. Tacoma Red

    Tacoma Red Active Member

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    Try a 5ft Saltwater Polyleader (Floating). I have the same with a polyleader and it helps.
     
  6. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Great idea thanks. Pretty obvious and went right by me
     
  7. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

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    Just for interest you might google up the youtube video from Red's Fly Shop of streamer fishing. It advocates the OBS and 10' polytips.
    I tried to like the regular Outbounds but never did. Somehow the OBS resonates well though. Great line IMO, especially off the beach but for other apps as well (streamers, bass, etc.), any time you want to throw a chunky fly, or into the wind, with a 6wt.
     
  8. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    I have the OBS in #8F and speedy sink, and in #11F for Tarpon. I use the 8s for Stripers exclusively and other than my temporary casting problems they work well. I wish they'd work on their running line--you need to tape up or use a glove for stripping.

    I'm just now starting to use polyleaders. Awesome for quick changes and carrying fewer rods and for turning a #2 or #3 line into a sinker on lakes. I think they pay for themselves in tippet savings.
     
  9. Cold

    Cold Member

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    If you're throwing big flies that you want to fish within the top few feet in current, I've found that a 7' x-fast sink poly leader will work great on that OBS floater too.
     
  10. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    I pool tested the Airflo 10' clear intermediate to check the sink rate and retrieve path.

    The sink rate is on the fast side, so the hover might get more use for emergers. I was amazed at the retrieve. Once you start bringing the line in, the path is very straight and parallel to the surface, not at the angle you'd expect from a floater. It's almost like there's a pulley at the point where the line goes horizontal.

    I have leaders from both Rio and Airflo and have not established a preference yet--has anyone found a favorite?
     
  11. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    I just ordered this in the bass line, 4', 24lb. tippet. Order a second floater for my black bass rod and an x-fast sinker for the OBS too. I think it's the same as saltwater in weight and taper, but shorter is better for my setup. Thanks!
     
  12. 9iron

    9iron Member

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    Poly leaders seems to be the answer. I had found that I could throw the OBS 6 weight floater pretty far with just an 8 foot mono leader, but the line turned over too soon and the fly kicked over in the air and landed who-knows-where, and the too-soon turnover caused the whole thing to land in a cockeyed mess. The line would forward haul fine with just a single back cast and shoot tight little loops, but 3/4 of the way out there (on any cast 50' or more) the head turned over and everything went to hell. The problem seemed to be too short of a leader, but I'm throwing somewhat large flies and the logic for that is shorter, stouter leaders. Conflicting answers. I went to the 8 foot Airflo sea trout poly leaders (int, Slow sink, Superfast sink) with an additional 5-6 feet of Ultragreen and the problem was solved. The add a little addditional weight too, which may help the OP if he feels the OBS is a touch light.

    I also use the OBS floater with the integrated intermediate tip and add polys to that as well. Just seems to cast a bit smoother.
     
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  13. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Your description highlights my experience precisely, step by step. Knowing someone else has had the same problems is comforting, and at least i know with some leader experimenting it can be solved. Thank you.
     
  14. Randall Clark

    Randall Clark Active Member

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    That happens to me when I try to over-power my forward cast. I've never noticed my short leaders making much of a difference (whether tapered or straight) in that regard. It always seems to boil down to the forward stroke.
     
  15. 9iron

    9iron Member

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    I agree that it is the power applied to the forward stroke, but it is also a matter of the head length. I can throw the same rod, same fly, same leader, but longer head and will not experience the same problems. A fly line, when in flight, flies (for lack of a better term) in the form of a loop that is in the process of unrolling to the point of complete turnover. Ideally the line or head (plus leader) will complete unrolling just as it's forward inertia dies and the line falls to the water, leaving a nice long more or less straight line from hand to fly. The aerialized line/head loop is under (1) the forward force from the cast, (2) the rearward tension against the loop from the aerialized line behind the loop (the bottom leg), and the unrolling of the top leg of the loop that ultimately leads to turnover. When the line/head is too long the loop will often not completely unroll, resulting in loop collapse. When the line/head is too short (for the distance it is cast) the top leg will complete it's unrolling too soon, resulting in premature turnover, fly kick, direction change, and other nasty things.

    The quick fix to the Too Short issue is to lengthen the line by adding leader material. Another thing that can affect this is the weight of the material in the top leg (i.e. Sink tips or polys), as heavier materials will take slightly longer to turnover (more resistance via mass/weight against the forward inertia). The trick is to be able to tinker with the materials until a satisfactory outcome is achieved.

    The OBS floater is short and made of the lighter line material, namely floating pvc vs heavier sinking line material. Thus, the floater gives us more trouble than the intermediate or sinking versions of the same design. It might seem easier to just switch lines (Airflo Forty Plus, for example) but the OBS is great at propelling big flies because of it's mass configuration, so it's actually worth tinkering around a little to get her dialed in, if you need to throw bigger flies.
     
  16. LCnSac

    LCnSac John or "LC"

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    Oy. It's good thing most of us don't mind screwing with stuff because I can envision having to change the tippet length between flies now. The fast sinker is so easy. 6' of Maxima 15lb, one false cast, 75' - 80' nearly every time with a 2/0 Clouser which is about all I ever use for Stripes down a few feet, Delta or river.
     
  17. Tacoma Red

    Tacoma Red Active Member

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