Casting Waste Deep?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by TallFlyGuy, May 21, 2006.

  1. I was fishing the other night and noticed when I got about waste deep or more my spey casting went to crap. It seemed very tough to get my line to break surface tension. Granted I was using a type 4 and a heavily weighted fly.

    Is this normal? Any suggestions for future sessions? Anyone had the same type of problem?

  2. Welcome to reality.
    Yes, wading deep can cause issues. I assume that you "had" to wade that deep for whatever reason. Every foot deeper you wade makes the cast more difficult. Rod length and line type/length also have a huge influence. Obviously, shorter rods and/or longer lines can make it more difficult. A longer stroke on the back cast with a higher lift will help you. If you are at 4 feet due to limited backcast room, this is really going to suck, because you will just be digging the line out of the bushes. Although some do not like them, this is where Skagit type lines really shine. Of course, if you have to wade deep and throw long they may not be the solution. A snap-T or C cast may help you. It would be somewhat difficult with anything longer than a Rio WindCutter.

    Oh and then there is the option of having a rod for every occasion ,you know 12' 6" to say 16' ... yeah 'cause we all have unlimited resources to buy gear. I don't know that I have helped you at all, given that there was not a lot of detail about the specific situation.

    Good luck and remember, the fish do not "grade the cast" just the presentation.
  3. The deeper the water the higher the hands. raise them up. This brings about another problem. The higher the hands, the shorter the stroke you are capable of. Solutions? A longer rod, and/or a shorter line. Even if you don't want to use a skagit line, a windcutter line, and a "perry poke" type cast can really save the day with deep wading. timing is less critical.
  4. When I first saw the 'title' above my first thought was "waste deep" in what?;)

    All good answers above; for each foot the rod butt is above the water (effectively) you've added a foot to the length of the rod. Sooo, deeper you wade, etc. Other thing that has to be added to the mix is most steelhead like to hold in water 3-8 foot deep. So if you're standing up to your belly-button in water ... you're standing where they want to hold. Not a good plan "A.":ray1:
  5. Thanks guys for the quick replies. Let me explain the holding area a little better, and then maybe when I'm out I'll post some pictures, since my "reading steelhead holding water" skillz are being doubted bawling: :confused: :D

    Ok, imagine if you will, if you are facing down stream, and to your left is a nice section of water that is fairly fast, then in the middle is a medium fast section then on your right is dead frog water. I like to stand just in from the seams (where the medium meets the stagnant) when swinging flies. Why? well it's nice to let your fly hang on the dangle and not drop dead and lifeless in the stagnant water. The depth is about 2feet at the top of the run, then it goes deeper and deeper to about 8-10 feet at the end.

    Damn this would be easier with a picture.

    One thing that helped me, was bringing in more line for my initial cast, and putting my anchor up stream a little more. Don't know what that does as far as the Purist form is concerned, but it did help me.

    Fred, One thing that has helped my casting greatly is the advice you told me about the anchor, and you must cast where your anchor goes. Well you explained it better, but you know what I mean right?

  6. Yes Ringlee!!:thumb: :thumb:

    That is almost exactly it. If you don't wade out, you can't get a good swing, and your fly just drops and dies while your fly line is doing funky swirls where the current meets the stagnant water.

    Glad to see someone understood my description.

  7. sounds like the perfect place for a skagit rod and line.
  8. I know exactly the water flow problem you speak of and watched Simon G. at the Sandy Clave provide the solution I'm just not sure I can explain it. He did a snake roll at the top of the lift position which unsticks the nastiest sparrow/sinktip combo you can think of and then went into a regular single spey cast, I immediatly had to try this of course and it works really cool. It wasn't a full snake roll and it was backwards kinda like a circle c but without using it to change direction. Hope this helps it sure has helped me with my long line sinktip combo
  9. Probably referring to Steve Choate's "spiral single" which Simon teaches and Steve credits the Snake roll for inspiring. Cool cast!
  10. Great, Sounds good, Now How do I get to see it? Hehe,

    Anyone have it on video or Mpeg they can show it to us?

  11. Yup, beat me to it.

    Sorry TFG the point you were standing in frog water went right over my head. That said, even with frog water there is some water movement, slow as it may be. Here I shift to a full floating line and a LONG leader and 'feather brick(s)' for flys.

    You can cast straight across and chuck a large up-stream mend in the line. With the end of the fly line/leader in the faster water this will move your fly down stream with the line following at a slow(er) pace. And as seam water is where you're most likely to find fish, this can be very effective.

    With a sinking set up your pretty much required to make more of a down stream cast to keep the sink tip in the moving water. Given a choice, I'd do the dry line/long leader as you have far more control over fly speed/presentation than with a sink tip set up.

  12. Sorry, duplicate post.:confused:

    Perhaps too simple of a description but think of the single spiril as a 'reverse' snake roll. With the snake, you lift the rod tip up, into the beach and do your 'squashed' "e" out over the river. (Constant acceleration is the key to making this cast work.) Timing of the forward cast is controled by when/where the leader touches down.

    As soon as it hits the water you need to be coming over the top with the forward cast.

    The single spril. is actually two casts in one. The point of the cast is to get a lot!! of line up off the water and moving before the anchor is set in a normal position 1-1.5 rod lengths out from you. Here the lift is up and OUT over the water (just the opposite of the snake). As you do the 'swerl' (sp?) you're moving the rod tip UP and BACK INTO the beach. This pulls your anchor up into position for the final 'single spey' cast out over the water.

    Hope that all makes a bit of sense.:hmmm:
  14. Whatsa matter Fred?

    I see this Fred Evans guy is posting all over the place. Whatsa matter Fred? Nothing better to do? As if I didn't know. LOL
  15. JD, Mother wants to know how you got on line. You're fully aware of the 'childrens controls' she's put on your computer!:ray1:

    Mother WILL NOT be amused.
  16. FAE how are the summer runs out there now, should be in full swing right ?

    :p :beer2:


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