Casting!

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by James Waggoner, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 767
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Bob, nice loop! I say yeah, lift from the butt more. Bruce adviced me to get a copy of Derek Brown's Spey casting video from Poppy, which I did. If you bought it just for the lift and single spey it's still worth every penny of $30. It demonstrates the "Shotgun Lift"; Pretty simple, just lift it like your bringing up a shot gun to shoot. I'm stopping about nipple high with my bottom hand before I sweep. Nipple high seems about appropriate for me as Bruce suggested my upper hand should be around nose height. Derek also puts strong emphasis on the importance of a vertical lift, then sweep. All in all very productive day on the water after I studied that video.

    That short head scandi style lift with the tip, your trying to break, Derek Brown refers to as "Hinging...very bad".

    James.
  2. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    well, you don't do the river left version of the SpazPoke on windy days, that's for sure:thumb:

    wait... wait...
    here's a cast with 15 ft of overhang. check it out. FF 45 head, 47 ft long. 18' leader.
    View attachment 47221

    as you can see, I love the absurd.

    compare to something a bit more normal.
  3. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    Agreed, James, seems like our longbelly adventure is rolling nicely, thanks to Bruce and the other experienced guys. Makes me grateful.
    This thread is great fun, hope no one's annoyed at the whimsical crap I'm sprinkling in... I am serious about improving my longstroke casting.
    I'll tell ya, jumping styles around today was a bear. a fun bear, a challenging bear, but a bear.
  4. Wadecalvin Member

    Posts: 238
    Redmond Oregon
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    Bob- with all due respect, that cast is insane and dangerous and unnecessary. But like your enthusiasm. Thanks for posting the clips.
  5. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    speaking of dangerous, insane and unnecessary, I repaired my link in post #22, showing a cast with 15 feet of overhang.

    but first, an underhanding moment: 15' Stinger, FF45 8/9:
    View attachment 47222
  6. sashjo Member

    Posts: 531
    Lakewood, WA.
    Ratings: +4 / 0
    Bob,
    Wow. You have me ducking at the computer!

    A few years back, I read an article on drowning. As I recall, head trauma was a huge factor. If you keep posting vids like that, Olympia will pass a law requiring a helmet while spey casting.
  7. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    guys, guys.
    Fly follows the line, line follows the tip.
    Always know where your tip is.
    I've never hit myself doing that cast, and never been stupid enough to try it in wind.
  8. T Dave Member

    Posts: 56
    Kelowna
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    I wanna see that whacko cast 10 times in a row with a 2/0:rofl:
  9. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
  10. sashjo Member

    Posts: 531
    Lakewood, WA.
    Ratings: +4 / 0
    Just expressing concern! Prevention of TBI from a lead eyed bunny.
  11. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    it's a bit late for that, LOL! But not from flies.
    Seriously, I've hit myself plenty of times casting, but never with the SpazPoke. Not once. I think the double is way more dangerous, if not done well. Complacency is the enemy when casting hooks.
    The SpazPoke wants a big fly, longish/heavyish tip, and the fly way out front for starters. On the cast I posted, the fly actually came out of the water ahead of me with no kickback, and it was a 4" leadeye bunny.

    But seriously, can we move on from the frivolous first cast I posted, and get some comments on the others? I've gotten some good PM feedback on the longstroke, and I think both James and I are interested in hearing more.
  12. bhudda heffe'

    Posts: 1,929
    basement
    Ratings: +103 / 0
    Learn some snake rolls, be your best friend on river right w/ long belly:)
  13. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 767
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Snake rolls with the long belly have been tough for me. Snake roll switch cast not problem but anything more than about 30 degrees of angle change and I fail to land my anchor correctly and it just seems to fall apart from there. Snake roll with mids and shorts, I agree, river right it's pretty much my go to cast unless I go left hand singles.

    Bhudda can you walk us through the motion and the common mistakes to avoid?
  14. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    I hear that, Bhudda. My longbelly snake roll is a work in progress, but I do them in the dark with a short head. The longer belly accentuates every fault, and I often end up short-strokin' it out of habit, with nowhere near enough lift or rear extension.
    Maybe next weekend I can capture some river right footage.

    Here's a spiral scandi pickup:
    View attachment 47267


    I'll second James' motion for some snake roll tips.
  15. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,724
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +611 / 1
    Much better. I'll say one thing for that cast, there is not much wasted motion, which equates to less time, which means more water covered/hour... a cast Deming would be proud of :thumb:
  16. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 767
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Nice looking cast....but this one of those short belly mirages! I struggled the first day out with the long belly, because my pick up/initial lift was not only too fast but the last half of my lift was into my sweep, causing me to work really hard.and lift higher to get the line to release resulting in a crashed anchor/bloody "L". I'm still a work in progress, but getting better every day on the water.

    Show us a long belly clip Bob.
  17. SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

    Posts: 1,818
    Roy, WA
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    Here's one that's more like a megascandi cast, hadn't quite hit a groove yet. 7/8 FF70. 15' 7/8 Greaser.
    View attachment 47355
  18. James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

    Posts: 2,777
    Tacoma
    Ratings: +85 / 0

    So take this advice knowing it's recycled from Gene Oswald. Often times with single spey anchors being blown with long bellies it happens because of 2 things.

    1) There is inconsistent tension in the line from cast to cast (i.e. in one cast the line is fully down stream and on the dangled, while in another there's lots of slack)

    2) An inconsistently applied lift and turn.

    Based on the videos you have it appears that on the first cast you are doing a very high initial lift, followed by a dip and then a secondary lift to prepare for the forward cast. In the cast immediately following you do a lower lift followed by a flat turn, with a secondary lift.

    When Gene took a look at my cast I was doing the same thing too. What he got me to focus on was to be *very* aware of the tension on the line, and to watch the rod tip on the cast to ensure consistency. Once I started to groove the lift and turn was the same every time, the anchors became much more consistent and controlled.
  19. James Waggoner Active Member

    Posts: 767
    wa
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    Thanks James for your observations. You are correct on both accounts...in my impatience I often don't let the complete dangle occur and you're exactly right on my lift. I think Bruce has squared me away on the lift and being Slow. I'll get a progress video up in the next few days, please be sure to comment on my progress.

    I'll need continue to work on the full on dangle...slack is a killer and it can creep in, in so many ways.

    thanks again,
    James
  20. bhudda heffe'

    Posts: 1,929
    basement
    Ratings: +103 / 0
    Mean Gene!! He can cast a country mile... I casted w/ him at competition,along with kush, Brian Styskel, Greg B...etc., all great casters,always learn something new.... they each have their own style, but are very consistent with what works for them.. Stella got her groove, you'll find yours..